Screw the general baseball thread, this deserves its own for history...Pirates!

I'll believe that when I start seeing more of their prospects making an impact on the major-league level. Outside of McCutchen that hasn't happened much yet. You could include Walker, too, but he took a long time to get there and they had pretty much written him off as a utility guy when he finally made it.

 

What a strange year. As a Pirates fan, you get bludgeoned into a coma by season after season of hopeless suckitude.

2011? It came easy, and it went just as fast [/snapping fingers]

 

In two years this string of consecutive losing seasons will be old enough to get shitfaced drunk legally.

 

Doesn't mean a thing if he was "pretty much written off as a utility guy." All that matters is that he came up, made the second-base job his own, and produced in well-above-average fashion. He's fulfilled the expectations of a first-rounder, in my mind.

 

The Pirates "progress" to me is fiction and smoke and mirrors. There was a stretch of about 80 games where their pitching staff played way above their heads and once they came back to earth, well, we've seen what happened.

But honestly, let's take a closer look at things.

I think we can all agree that (provided they can lock these guys up, not a given, but likely) center field and second base are in good shape for the long haul. I have concerns about the ability of Jose Tabata to stay healthy, but let's assume he does - that makes a third position that for the long term is in really good shape.

Now, tell me one more position on the field - despite all of these draft picks - that you are fairly certain the Pirates are in good shape for the next five to seven years?

First base? Not even a legitimate prospect in the organization to get excited about.

Catcher? Tony Sanchez? McKenry? Jaramillo? All three have significant flaws and big questions.

Shortstop? Ciarroco? Perhaps. d'Arnaud? He is a terrible fielder.

Third base? Pedro? Perhaps, but who knows. Josh Harrison? Yes, he is fast and he is also, um, well he is fast.

Right field? Alex Presley? Starling Marte? That's great - but how many fast outfielders with no power can you jam on one roster?

And then there is this pitching staff -

Morton is your "ace" and has the stuff of an ace. Unfortunately he is what, 9-9 or something because he can't string more than two or three good starts together and his bad starts are generally a disaster.

Correia won 12 games this year but he had like ten wins by mid-June then woke up. Do you really think he is matching that next year?

Karstens has woke up and shown he can't pitch a full season and do you think he will ever be as good as he was from April to August?

Ohlendorf -- please.

Lincoln - Starting to believe he is a career journeyman who never becomes much more than a third or fourth starter.

McDonald - After Morton probably the only guy who showed some signs of being a pretty good pitcher, though he is very inconsistent and not better than a third or fourth starter, either.

Maholm - He is gone, they ain't giving this guy $9 million, nor should they.

Taillon - Maybe in four years - but he could also blow out his arm like a lot of these power pitchers tend to.

Allie - Looking at what he has done in State College he has some real control issues.

I really do hate to be the cynical type because the Pirates are such an easy target (it is fun to pick on yinzer Steeler fans and even Penguins fans to a lesser degree because they are so obnoxious but I am being serious when I say I wish the Pirates were better) but am I wrong here?

I hope they make some progress each year but this idea that because they won a few more games this year and have a couple of young guys who can play that somehow this automatically means there is significant progress being made and this team will contend in the next year or two.

I just don't see it unless they make some significant free agent moves and a large majority of these prospects they are counting on -- particularly the pitchers -- come through.

 

I think that's pretty damn accurate, zag. Good rundown.

 

After being badly mishandled. Sure, it looks like second base is going to be fine for a while, but they still need to show they can actually develop top talent.

 

Go look at the talent at the lower levels of the Pirates farm system. The days of signing the two Indian dudes for PR are over.

It might take two or three waves of call-ups (like the Royals are doing), but they'll all be on deck at some point along with the cost-controlled talent.

The problem is McCutchen's negotiations seem to have stagnated.

 

Glad you're still breathing Mr. Sanctimonious.

 

Sounds like I touched a nerve. Now go see that thread about politics threads. The mods want to offer up some leeway for that kind of thing, but one of the things that will keep that from happening is people like you who can't stop themselves from dragging it everywhere else.

 

Tallion, Allie, Heredia, Sanchez and Marte joined by Cole, Bell and Dickerson among a few others will give the Pirates more legit big league talent in this sentence than they have had in the past decade. If half of those names become legit big leaguers, the Pirates will be fine.

These are players with actual upside to be all stars someday. Maybe not all, but some. Once they decided to start filling the minors with talent, it is a three to four year wait for the big league team to reap these rewards.

For the last 15 years, they chose not to do this. There is a future in Pittsburgh, but it is just not now. It is coming.

 

There isn't nearly as much talent in this system as we're led to believe by Huntington/Connelly apologists. The farm system was ranked No. 19 at the start of this season.

There are a few high-end pitchers but there is not one legit - other than Alvarez potentially - difference-making bat in this entire system. That is a point even Huntington has conceded.

And the idea of cycling people over time is not going to work, there won't be enough talent on the roster in any one or two year period to realistically make a run at a division title.

This team needs to add some major league-ready talent in order to take the next step - but given Huntington's hideous track record of major league acquisitions (Iwamora, Overbay, Diaz to name a few) do you really think he is the guy to lead the way?