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Shoeless Joe Jackson

Discussion in 'Anything goes' started by Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Jul 16, 2006.

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Should Joe Jackson be allowed into the Hall of Fame?

  1. Yes - Joe should be in the Hall of Fame

    28 vote(s)
    57.1%

  2. No - he should never be re-instated.

    21 vote(s)
    42.9%
Page 4 of 5
  1. 85bears

    85bears Member

    Stuff like that either strikes people the right way or makes them ill. Witness the way different people view Notre Dame football, the best equivalent I can come up with for self-reverence on MLB's scale.

    Personally, I believe you can embrace the quasi-religious aspects of baseball while at the same time digging hard into its past to enlighten a true history. I guess I'm kind of like the pastor dude who recently wrote a big book about why science is OK.

    I think baseball's kind of like chess in the way patterns and mathematics define it. On the other hand, the atmosphere surrounding it and its place in our national history add art to it.

    Yeah, I'm in SABR.
     
    85bears, Jul 17, 2006
    #37
  2. Johnny Dangerously

    Johnny Dangerously Well-Known Member

    I read "Shoeless Joe" and "The Iowa Baseball Confederacy" before seeing "Field of Dreams," and I never thought J.D. Salinger actually traveled with Kinsella to help research his book about Shoeless Joe Jackson. I always thought it was a fantasy part of a fantasy novel.

    One of my favorite stories by Kinsella is his fantasy take on The Shot Heard 'Round the World. Good stuff, in my opinion.
     
    Johnny Dangerously, Jul 17, 2006
    #38
  3. 85bears

    85bears Member

    My favorite is the one where all the major leaguers can't be bothered to take their nose out of the books they're reading. Nice social commentary about our priorities and our heroes by a guy who actually does love the game.

    The other one that was memorable was where the people all play a part in resodding an astroturf field under cover of night. Or something like that.
     
    85bears, Jul 17, 2006
    #39
  4. Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L)

    Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L) Active Member

    My mistake on the Salinger connection. I read it on IMDB but after checking it out it is not true.

    Kinsella did use Salinger as a character in the Shoeless Joe book and I think this is a case of fact and fantasy being confused together. My apologies. In the movie the character is changed to Terrance Mann.
     
    Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Jul 17, 2006
    #40
  5. Fenian_Bastard

    Fenian_Bastard Guest

    Damn, I'm disappointed.
     
    Fenian_Bastard, Jul 17, 2006
    #41
  6. Johnny Dangerously

    Johnny Dangerously Well-Known Member

    85bears,

    The one I'm talking about is the one you're talking about. Priceless. The narrator's running arguments with the Giants coaches and players about whether certain novels are allegories ... damn, where's my copy of that short story? I want to go read it again now.
     
    Johnny Dangerously, Jul 17, 2006
    #42
  7. Twoback

    Twoback Active Member

    FB, if it weren't woven into the fabric of our society, if it weren't the first game most of us came to love as kids, what the heck would baseball have going for it? It's nine guys standing in one place for half a night, only to be replaced for the other half by nine different guys.
    Without the meaning, baseball is pretty dull.
     
    Twoback, Jul 17, 2006
    #43
  8. Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L)

    Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L) Active Member

    Let me just mention that Wade Boggs still sucks
     
    Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Jul 17, 2006
    #44
  9. buckweaver

    buckweaver Active Member

    And football is 22 barbarians smacking each other around for an hour. You can simplify every sport to meaningless nothingness if you want to. Doesn't mean any of them are dull.

    Sorry, but I HATE this argument. Huge pet peeve.
     
    buckweaver, Jul 17, 2006
    #45
  10. Jesus_Muscatel

    Jesus_Muscatel Well-Known Member

    "Is she really goin' out with him???"

    Wait, that's another Joe Jackson.

    Proceed.

    And Pete Rose is still the Anti-Christ.
     
    Jesus_Muscatel, Jul 17, 2006
    #46
  11. JRoyal

    JRoyal Well-Known Member

    I say open the doors for Shoeless Joe and Rose. Let them in. Then, open a special exhibit for controversial figures in the Hall. When Bonds gets in, he can go there, too. Actually deal with the unseemly side of the game, showing that sometimes bad things have happened, but the game goes on.
     
    JRoyal, Jul 17, 2006
    #47
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    A little late to the party. I am on the fence about Jackson. Yes, he took money and the idealist in me says that if he knew about it, took the money and did nothing to stop it, it was aan assault on the integrity of the game that should deny him access to the Hall of Fame. But the other half of it is that he played in an era when things were so different than they are now. Comiskey was such a prick, and so cheap with his players, and while those guys earned nice salaries compared to the typical person on the street, they were not getting wealthy from baseball. So taking the money was probably less a case of "blind, arrogant greed," than him feeling he was just getting what he was owed from Comiskey, who dicked his players every opportunity he got. I could be swayed either way about Jackson. If a player today, earning $2 million a year, threw World Series games for a payoff, it would make my blood boil in a way that Shoeless Joe Jackson doesn't.

    Knowing how I feel about cheating and integrity, this may surprise some, but I absolutely think Pete Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame. His gambling does not change when he did on the field as a player. If there was any evidence that he ever did anything to throw a baseball game, it would be one thing. But there isn't.

    Baseball should have a hard line when it comes to anyone associated with the game doing any sort of gambling on the game. Keep Rose away from being honored at official baseball ceremonies. Ban him from the game. Make it clear to everyone that he dipped his toe in a pool that he knew was off limits. But that still doesn't change what he did as a player, and as a player, he is Hall of Fame worthy.
     
    The Big Ragu, Jul 17, 2006
    #48
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