Should salary be a secret?

No, Shockey, it's cool, it's an interesting discussion. I really kind of thought not discussing salary was the general consensus, and it has actually been enlightening to find out differently.

 

Dang, no wonder you left that first job when you did. Massive raise, based on my research.

 

How do you know what reporters at other papers make? You have information that helps you decide what is a fair wage. Shouldn't others have that info or is that reserved for members of the sports writers club?

Knowledge is power and secrecy may help management fill a job, but it doesn't help workers. You mentioned friends of yours teaching at the local private school. The paper wrote a story on teacher's salaries that included that school.

Why should our salaries be private? It's hypocrisy to suggest otherwise.

 

As a union rep I always encouraged folks to share their salary numbers, especially the amount of merit pay (above scale), because it provides leverage for others to negotiate similar increases.

 

Off topic, but I feel bad that we have to discuss this, considering the stories my dad has told me of getting his first job after college.

After his four-year stint in the Navy, he went to a JUCO for two years to get an associates in electronics. Got hired on by a national aerospace company to test instruments put in aircraft, was able to choose where he wanted to work from various locations around the country, flown out to interview across the country, flown out with my mom to go house hunting after he accepted the job, and then had full-service moving paid in full by the company.

My dad wasn't the best student, but worked hard. He didn't make a ton of money at the start, but had good benefits.

Do you think he started sending resumes out right away? No, because the company showed some loyalty to him. He got regular raises and a few promotions, which aren't happening in this industry. Some of us don't care about this in the long run because this job is too much fun. After all, we watch games for free.

Those salad days are over and now we're arguing whether how lucky we are to be underpaid.

 

I used to think, unequivocally, as Stitch does, that everyone should know what everyone else makes.

I thought that because I figured that, you know, such information pretty much is what it is, anyway, no matter our opinions about it, and so, what difference does it really make whether we know it, or not? (Or, whether we like it, or not?).

Most places do have designated starting points and ranges for positions, anyway. But, if an employer really wants to pay someone something that's outside of a particular range for a position, well, they can probably do that if they want to/need to, as long as it's not a union shop. Right?

It is, basically, up to you whether you want to take X job for X amount, or not.

And, as long as subjective things like merit, and separate, unequal/different things like comparisons of the importance of great multi-media skills against great copy-editing or management skills don't enter into the equation, that thinking is probably fine.

But...there are just so many contributing factors -- things of often unequal weight/significance depending on who is involved in assessing such things.

That makes for a lot of gray areas and less-than-easy or uniform answers to the question of whether we all really can, or should, know what other particular people earn.

That said, I do think job ads should include a salary range. It would answer, at least generally, an important, and usually first, question that anybody thinks of and would save everyone a lot of time as far as determining the level of interest in and the viability of any particular job.

 

I suppose it depends upon how much other factors mean to you. If the money is the driving reason behind you writing for a living and you're not getting paid what you think you're worth, then I guess you have every reason to get out of the business.

On the other hand, if you're like me and you have a job you love that's within an hour from you and your wife's family, that makes it a different for me. Could I get more money elsewhere? Sure. But not enough to make me want to live 12 or 20 hours away from our families.

My wife and I both work and we don't have kids yet, so there are just things that I value over getting $1,000 more a year somwhere 20 hours away.

That being said, that isn't a slight toward anyone else who chooses to move away for the best paying job. To each his own, and if getting the highest salary you can no matter where it is is important, then more power to you. To each his own.

My point is that squeezing out every dollar isn't the motivation behind every person's job in journalism. Some things are more important to others and I think we should respect that.

 

I understand what you're saying, peacer, really. But...I think you're probably missing an important part of Stitch's point -- which, by the way, is not that money is the be-all/end-all for him, or, probably, for any journalist.

That's why this discussion is going on. Journalists, by and large, really are underpaid, given the demands of their jobs and the skills involved, especially now as those skills become more and more tech-related. There actually are people, even at major metros, who are quite underpaid, even when compared to others doing nearly the same work at the same papers.

Stitch's point, I think, is just that we should not be naive and OK with a certain level of pay just out of what amounts to, um, the goodness of our hearts and our love of writing.

The actual level of pay of a particular job, and what particular people may think of that, may, of course, vary.

But wanting to and believing you should be paid well (by your own standard) is not the same thing as money "being the driving reason" behind why you write.

It's practically a given that almost nobody, especially in newspapers, writes for a living "for the money."

Even if someone moves on to a better-paying job, it's a good bet that that isn't actually the reason they are doing it. More than likely, it's a better/higher job, not simply a better-paying job. There is probably a step up in responsibility, a great beat, a bigger/more recognizable city/paper, etc., and that that is the primary reason behind the move.

The better pay just comes along with it -- as it should.

 

Oh I understand that point, Writethinking.

But what are your options? I'm going to be paid THIS amount or I'm not working in journalism? I would love to be paid more. I think it would be great to make a point to my bosses and my co-workers by demanding more. Everyone wants to be paid more, that's not a point that needs to be made.

At the same time, I want to stay in the industry, Writethinking. So, I guess if you have the feeling of "I'm worth this and I won't settle for less because of ill-advised paying efforts of the industry," then I guess it's right to get out of the business. If you're lucky enough to get a newspaper to bite on that line of thinking and you max out what you think you're worth, than that's awesome. That's a victory for journalists everywhere.

But, as we all know, most of us don't make what we think we're worth. And if you want to get out of the industry because of it, then do what makes you happy. Me? I'm still in my 20s, and I (hopefully) have a long life ahead of me. I make plenty of money, and I hope I get raises and it keeps going up. I just haven't been with my paper long enough to start storming into people's offices and making demands.

 

Who said you should storm into people's offices and make demands?

Thing is, you won't get those raises you hope are coming unless you have some reasonable idea of a fair negotiating price. Arming yourself with knowledge is never a bad thing.

 

Everything thing you said doesn't mean a thing if the company's not giving raises. It's clear the people who agree with me have better things to do than sit and argue this point while the people who don't agree with me choose to sit and protest. Big surprise.

I'll do the same as my cohorts.

 

I'm surprised we don't hear the "Not enough people are agreeing with me on this thread because they're busy doing more worthwhile things" argument more often.