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Teacher Opposed to Gay Marriage Could be Fired

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by sportbook, Aug 19, 2011.

  1. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Never said it was.
     
  2. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Then can you stop being obtuse and explain the connection between "consequences of their speech" and the current situation?
     
  3. franticscribe

    franticscribe Well-Known Member

    That's largely true. Garcetti wiped out a lot of speech protections for public employees as it's now very difficult to find instances where one's speech would clearly be made as a private citizen. I think this particular scenario is one of those instances though and I think this teacher would have a decent chance of surviving the Pickering-Connick test.
     
  4. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    I wasn't attempting to argue legality. I understand that a "common sense" standard doesn't exist. Which is probably a shame. But I am expressing my disdain for a system that allows an advocate of pediophilia to have a place in a school system. Common sense dictates that's a horrible fucking idea.

    Edit: sorry for exercising my First Amendment right to fuck up the quote function

    [/quote]

    I totally understand your side of it. I'm just personally more comfortable with a "no exceptions" policy than dealing with the slippery slope of "okay, some exceptions."
     
  5. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    For my money, acceptable consequences include loss of respect of friends and family, public scrutiny, etc. Loss of job, especially a state-sponsored job, should not be on the list.
     
  6. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    1) The teacher exercises his right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment.

    2) His speech violates a standard of his employment as determined by his employer.

    3) He is disciplined as a consequence of his speech.
     
  7. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    He is a public employee.

    Therefore he cannot be fired for his speech alone, because that would be a state action punishing speech for its content.

    Therefore, in this case, he most certainly is protected from the consequence, this particular consequence, of his speech.
     
  8. RickStain

    RickStain Well-Known Member

    His employer is the government. For First Amendment reasons, I don't believe his employer should be allowed to have a standard of employment that makes any sort of speech a violation. Unfortunately, court precedent is on their side.

    If his employer was not the government, I'd still argue that it's bad for them to make any standard of conduct that makes personal speech a violation, but they'd be well within their rights to do it.
     
  9. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Right, but it still requires some legal gymnastics to get there. A school system couldn't have a blanket rule saying, "If you speak out publicly about homosexual marriage, you will be fired for that speech." The speech has to cause an actual disruption, I believe, not a theoretical or hypothetical one.
     
  10. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    He's on administrative leave so far.

    Firing him for this one episode would be extreme. (Maybe for a pattern of instances like this; or for obvious bigotry in how he grades, or deals with students, etc.)

    And again: If he simply types "I object to gay marriage." none of this is likely to happen.
     
  11. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    So speech should get more protection if you are less emphatic about it?
     
  12. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Emphatic?

    Nope.

    But colorful amplifiers like "cesspool" certainly muddy the waters as a matter of "hate speech."
     
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