The Beatles Thread

Stones > Beatles

 

Whoops there too ...

Rolling Stones drop Brown Sugar from US tour set list

 

The only person who was deeply involved enough to be a possibility is George Martin. If you watch the McCartney 123 doc with Rick Rubin on Hulu, over and over McCartney talks about how Martin made their ideas happen. He wrote the horn and string charts, provided many various tweaks in production and technology, played piano and horns. He knew the best engineers and techs and recruited them as needed. Since he was firmly grounded in recording classical music, he knew all the best players when they went to orchestral charts.

It's still not enough for 5th Beatle status, but you gotta give the guy a 4 1/2. There are so many touches and details that would not have happened without his advice and presence.

And if you have not yet seen the 123 episodes, they're fabulous.

 

George Martin was in the right place at the right time. But if in the employ of The Doors or the Strawberry Alarm Clock, would he have not done the same?

 

Part of Martin's magic was that once they did a bit of work together he started relating with them very well. He was the inside guy who could champion their choices and wrestle with the studio when they were just the talent. That relationship became deep and special. He also understood Paul's music hall side. The Doors came a bit later, and I'm not sure that things would have been the same with the English gentleman/California Rock God dynamic. I can't see the Alarm Clock as substantial enough to make a dent.

I'm not sure that Martin would have put up with Morrison's drunken and abusive side once they were up to starting The Soft Parade or so, perhaps before.

 

For me the Beatles were absolutely pivotal for my musical tastes. I was eight the first time that they played Ed Sullivan. My little brother and I jumping around and dancing the twist bemused my mother, who went out and bought the U.S. releases, Meet the Beatles and The Beatle's Second Album. Side 1 of MTB was written entirely by the group. I Wanna Hold Your Hand and She Loves You were the big chart breaking hits in the U.S. that put them on the map. Solid early Beatles. Side 2 is again all group written with the exception of Till There Was You, which was a song from The Music Man. A touch of Broadway via Hollywood. It's 4/4 Beatles rock in the main and I liked it a lot. George Martin piano on "Not a Second Time", Hammond organ on "I Wanna Be Your Man" which they actually gave to the Stones, who recorded it first.

2nd Album was for the most part a collection of covers and B sides. Both of these records were culled from the four previous UK albums or sessions for them, mainly because the American market was Beatle crazed and Capitol wanted to get a second album out as fast as possible to cash in. "Thank You Girl" and "You Can't Do That" on side 1 were Lennon/McCartney, the other four songs were Chuck Berry's "Roll Over Beethoven" as well as "You Really got a Hold on Me" (Smokey Robinson/Motown), "Devil in Your Heart" (Ricky Dee), and "Money" (Barrett Strong/Motown). Side 2 opened with Little Richard's "Long Tall Sally", "I Call Your Name" (Lennon/McCartney), "Please Mr. Postman" (the Marvelettes/Motown), "I'll Get You" and "She Loves You", both originals.

The Beatles plus Chuck Berry, Little Richard, and various Motown pushed me down that road. I can't tell you how often when I was a bit older I would put those LP's on and play "Roll Over Beethoven", then flip it and play "Long Tall Sally" and "Money".

I knew every little scratch and pop in those records. They went a long way toward forming my tastes early on, and of course as the new Beatle records came out there was more to dig into. I never really hit a point where I tired of the early Beatles, although I did burn out on She Loves You and Hold Your Hand pretty early. Those songs were the foundation of my love for rock.

 

I'm a little younger than you, NC ... the Ed Sullivan debut happened exactly 8 years before I was born. But as others have mentioned earlier in this thread, the Beatles' early songs have grown on me as I've gotten older and re-listened to them.

You mentioned "You Can't Do That," and a there are a couple other ones such as "I'll Be Back" and "No Reply" ... early songs (all mainly written by John, I believe) where the Beatles display great musicianship with lyrics that are a bit on the creepy side.

As Little Steven likes to say, those songs are quickly discarded throwaways for the Beatles but would be career highlights for just about anyone else.

 

When I was watching the McCartney 1 2 3 specials, one of the things he talks about is how fast they worked, how many songs got pounded out in a day or two. One of them would come in with a verse, a chorus, or a riff and then they'd knock it around and play with it until it came together. We've known forever about either Paul or John having most of a song together and then the other one would write a bridge or verse that offset John's cynicism or Paul's optimism and made the song click together far better. Some of it is Liverpool working class work ethic, some of it came from their time in Hamburg, playing four or five shows a day for a month or two in a row. When they started to work a song up they often simply stayed on it until it came together. Their studio mindset was completely different from say the Eagles or Fleetwood Mac a decade later, taking many months to over a year to record an LP. When recording their first few albums they would run through a song a couple of times and then cut it. They'd have a list of possibles and record ten or twelve songs in two days.

So yes, there were some throwaways due to that. It was also an era where it was considered a waste of perfectly good product to put a good song on both sides of a 45. One A side, one piece of dreck was the norm, until they began to refuse to do things that way. We can also throw in the difference in social norms, which can make some of the early lyrics kind of jarring to today's listener.

 

David Remnick:

Paul McCartney Doesn’t Really Want to Stop the Show

 

"To retrieve the memories and sensations of the past, Proust relied mainly on the taste of crumbly cakes moistened with lime-blossom tea. The rest of humanity relies on songs. Songs are emotionally charged and brief, so we remember them whole: the melody, the hook, the lyrics, where we were, what we felt. And they are emotionally adhesive, especially when they’re encountered in our youth."

Oh, that's so nicely written. "Emotionally adhesive".

And this. Can you imagine being a fly on the wall for a couple of days like this?

"The Beatles worked at a furious pace. Their producer, George Martin, brought deep experience to the process, along with an unerring ability to help the band translate their ideas into reality. As McCartney recalls, “George would say, ‘Be here at ten, tune up, have a cup of tea.’ At ten-thirty you’d start.” Two songs were recorded by lunch, and often two more afterward. “Once you get into that little routine, it’s hard, but then you enjoy it. It’s a very good way to work. Because suddenly at the end of every day you’ve got four songs.”

 

Many songs bring back specific memories of former lovers and our time together. Music was the backbeat in those relationships.

 

Its great to be Remnick. In addition to his day job, he writes excellent profiles of his favorite musicians.