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The Economy

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by TigerVols, May 14, 2020.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    It wasn't normal, though. They didn't allow all of the bed debt they were responsible for from before the financial crisis default. Instead, they came up with a scheme to create money out of thin air and use it to buy treasury bonds and mortgage-backed securities, in order to suppress interest rates (and stave off the defaults).

    The thing is, those interest rates are the price of money. ... so they have been making money artificially too cheap. That, in turn, changes how people value that money, and in the case of home prices, it drove prices up. Which is what you have been seeing. This is the Fed's balance sheet just with regard to the mortgage-backed securities it has been buying.

    [​IMG]


    The first sign of trouble now -- like in 2020 -- their default is to step in with more hijacking of the debt markets; more money created out of thin air and more bond buying -- short-term "fixes" that create massive long-term issues.

    Economically, people are paying for it in a multitude of ways from the broad-based consumer price inflation they unleashed with the insanity response to Covid (monetizing an insane amount of govnerment spending -- 2020 to 2022 on the graph), to runaway asset prices since they began this stupidity after the financial crisis -- which includes home prices and has made it so that the younger generations are now priced out.

    We are reeping what we sowed. On top of it, the debt levels they have created with this "policy" make the overall economy way more vulnerable to a debt bomb exploding if (really, it is when) their ability to frantically keep their thumb on the scales of finance runs out.
     
  2. Twirling Time

    Twirling Time Well-Known Member

    Quote unquote, "Okay."

    The U.S. outside of Raguville has a lot more land and a lot more developable infill property within cities as well as out in the ETJ (IYKYK).

    Comparing the same to France or Switzerland or Germany or NYC is typical misinformation.

    This is why Texas is growing, and Cali and NY are shrinking and clogging up my Starbucks lane.
     
  3. Dog8Cats

    Dog8Cats Well-Known Member

    Wholeheartedly disagree ... for completely non-economic reasons (at least not prima facie economic reasons).
     
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    What I was talking about isn't a "Raguville" thing -- although I get it, I post, you try to reflexively insult me. Home ownership in Switzerland is the lowest in the west, and in fact, there was a story in the NY Times a few months ago saying the rental culture there might offer a glimpse of the "post-ownership society" the U.S. is heading toward because of affordability.

    In This Country, Most People Rent for Life. Is That Really What They Want?

    What you were trying to say just isn't true. It isn't an "available land" thing. Switzerland has limited buildable land because it is so mountainous. The story actually comments on that.

    In the United States and many other countries, homeownership is encouraged by the government and generally considered a rite of passage. In Switzerland, where the terrain is 70 percent mountains and expensive real estate on limited buildable land has been the reality for generations, a lifetime of renting is not considered a personal failure or a shortcoming of the system.

    The "lifetime of renting is not considered a personal failure or shortcoming of the system" is precisely what I was posting about.
     
    SFIND and Azrael like this.
  5. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    https://www.britannica.com/place/Switzerland/Health-and-welfare

    With about one-third of all dwellings owner occupied, Switzerland has among the lowest home ownership rates in Europe. This low figure is partially the result of the country’s high population density and scarce land, which has inflated the value of land, combined with an unequal income distribution—factors that have made it impossible for a majority of the population to acquire a dwelling.

    As to whether or not 'thrift' is a virtue, that's been an argument all the way back to Aristotle.
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Not sure where you are getting "thrift is a virtue" from.

    Someone else brought up France saying that there is a renter's culture there. ... I spend a lot of time in France, and my understanding was that home ownership rates in France aren't very different than they are in the U.S.

    What I was saying was, "If you want a renter culture, look at Switzerland."

    I then talked about the different attitudes between the U.S. and Switzerland with regard to home ownership. In the U.S. politicians have spent the last century selling this notion that home ownership is a virtue of some sort, and as a coutry we have done a lot of things fiscally and monetarily to subsidize home ownership, which in turn has hurt the broad population in ways I can fill up a message board with.

    In Switzerland, they haven't done that, and in fact, they don't see it as some kind of national failing. I also pointed out that despite the fact that most people rent their homes there, the country as a whole produces way more than the U.S. on a per capita basis. It's not like that "renter's culture" is indicative of a poor country. The people there are wealthier than they are in the U.S.

    That wasn't the "thrift is a virtue" you took from that. It was exactly what I said.There is no inherent virtue in owning a home. Obviously, if you can afford one, it's a significant asset so who wouldn't want to own one? But 1) At the end of the day, from a practical standpoint a dwelling is a roof over your head, something accomplished by renting, and 2) It's certainly not worth artificially creating all of the unitended consequences that have hurt people way worse than it has helped in this country by coming up with nationwide schemes to try to subsidize home ownership for people.
     
    SFIND likes this.
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I don't know if anyone has been paying attention to the circle jerk at Davos this year (Evem if you don't care, it's still fun googling up some of the stories about all of the local brothels being booked up).

    But this may be the best speech I have ever seen at Davos. The U.S. could use a president like Javier Milei instead of the clowns we're settling for.

     
  8. Hermes

    Hermes Well-Known Member

    I can walk around my town and tell you whether the house is owned or a rental based on its appearance and state of repair.

    The quality of life in a town can almost directly be tied to people having stakes in the community they live.

    It’s an aspect people who live in cities rarely consider. An apartment is an apartment to them. In a small town, things like this matter greatly.
     
  9. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Three years ago, we wanted to refinance to lower our interest rate (which was at 5 percent). We had about 10 years left on the mortgage, and I didn’t want a 15-year or a 30-year. But the bank claimed they didn’t have a 10-year mortgage.

    Instead, what the bank did is set up a personal loan (at 2.83 percent!), used that loan to pay off the mortgage and now I pay the bank for the loan. I save about $110 a month from the reduced interest, and my bank automatically deducts the payment from my account each month. I’ll be paying about four extra months at the end, but I’m saving about $8K over the life of the loan.

    The only thing is, like you, now I have to pay my property taxes myself instead of the mortgage company. What I did was set up another account at my bank, put in the remaining escrow money from the mortgage company once they sent it, and I transfer in $500 a month from my regular account through the bank app for the taxes. Which I still pay by check because my local tax collectors charge a 2.5 percent fee for paying taxes electronically and I don’t feel like paying $150 a year to avoid writing checks. I get my tax bills through the mail.

    My insurance company also takes my homeowners insurance out of my bank account, so I don’t have to worry about remembering to pay that.
     
    Batman, MileHigh and Driftwood like this.
  10. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    I'll happily pay for things online with a credit card, but nobody gets to access my bank account. If there is some dispute, I want to dispute it before I pay, not try to get the money back once it has been siphoned out of my account.

    Just at the moment I have three declarations documents from Progressive as my auto policy is up for renewal on Feb. 2, and I've added a car and removed a car. The premiums are different in all three documents. I'll pay once it's straightened out, but I don't trust them to take money out of my account.
     
    2muchcoffeeman likes this.
  11. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    I generally pay online with a credit card for my various irregular purchases. But my regular payments, (House loan, car insurance, life insurance, Peacock channel),, get paid through my bank.

    I used to be really paranoid about access to my bank, to the point where it took years for me to want to direct deposit for my paycheck. Now I’m a little less paranoid, although I can check my account on my phone through my banking app with a couple of passwords.
     
  12. SFIND

    SFIND Well-Known Member

    As a renter in a small town, I don't find the same thing at all.

    The worst-kept houses are those who own it and can't afford to/are too lazy to keep it up. The same people who scream at city council meetings about being forced to pay for sidewalk repairs or about the code enforcer daring to tell them to mow their three-foot lawn.

    People who rent here have roots in the community, care and don't trash stuff. Landlords largely keep up the properties because the city makes them.
     
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