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The Economy

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by TigerVols, May 14, 2020.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    So if you buy that Canada is subsidizing their lumber industry. ... why the fuck would we fight it? People think about these things so irrationally. It means that the Canadian government is paying part of the cost for U.S. consumers to buy lumber from Canadian companies. That makes things cheaper for Americans. We should be laughing at them, calling it a gift, and encouraging them do it for as long as they are willing to before they realize that they are running up government debt that every Canadian is on the hook for. ... to subsidize American consumers.
     
  2. goalmouth

    goalmouth Well-Known Member

    Profit and loss?

    That's not how geopolitics work.
     
  3. LanceyHoward

    LanceyHoward Well-Known Member

    When countries were on the gold standard it was considered extremely important to maintain the stability of your currency versus the price of gold. So tariffs made sense if a country did not want to devalue their currency.

    Fixed currencies went away 50 years ago and are not coming back (when currency moves by electrons rather than bulk metal it becomes impossible to regulate effectively). So if the USA abandoned all tariffs with Canada what would happen? Canadian imports would initially increase but the value of the United States dollar would decrease, making US goods and services more attractive, and the economies would settle into equilibrium. Floating currencies are a market-based solution rather than the government-based solution of tariffs. But most countries don't do it because tariffs protect a specific interest group, such as farmers or steel workers.

    Singapore has no tariffs, and the country has been an economic miracle.
     
  4. goalmouth

    goalmouth Well-Known Member

    Tariffs are also a bargaining chip, which is coin of the realm in Washington.
     
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Can you explain this?

    If a country is on the gold standard it can't devalue its currency. That is the point of being on a gold standard. The value of your currency is directly linked to the gold you have in reserves and can't be manipulated.
     
  6. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    My money's on "No."
     
  7. TrooperBari

    TrooperBari Well-Known Member

    I can't speak to all tariffs in general, but the ones on China specifically remain politically useful at home and abroad. Barring an astonishing display of last-minute holiday shopping, China is going to miss its targets for purchases of US goods under the Phase 1 trade deal negotiated under the previous administration -- and not by a narrow margin.

    What happens if the US-China phase one trade deal fails?
    I'd wager Biden and his people want to retain some negotiating leverage over China, and unilaterally lifting tariffs risks looking like rewarding China for not living up to its promises. Plus, there's always domestic politics to consider. Republicans are no doubt already lining up attack ads on Biden and Democrats that highlight Xi Jinping calling Biden "old friend" during their virtual summit, so I can understand how easing up on China tariffs could be seen as needlessly giving Republicans more fodder (not that they need it). Being "tough on China" is the new "tough on terror/drugs/crime/the Russkies", so the old cycle of Republicans setting the agenda and Democrats feeling the need to double down or risk voters seeing them as "soft" on the issue of the day will begin anew.
     
  8. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Too bad he limited the scope of that article, because the implications of what he was saying aren't that great for the country.

    It's true that we are seeing job hopping. The labor market is tight. There are way more jobs available than willing workers in the leisure and hospitality industry he was talking about. As a result, people on the lowest end of the wage scale are finding better pay and opportunities in the next tier of jobs and have jumped. Some of those jobs have had the added benefit of not being customer facing. ... in the middle of a pandemic. The situation has left us with a shortage of waiters and waitresses and bartenders and hotel workers, etc. It is why restaurants and bars around the country have help wanted signs on their windows, and some are even operating at reduced capacity because they don't have the staff to meet demand.

    Until / unless that situation changes, you would expect an inflationary spiral to continue, what he didn't get into. The way to try to attract those workers in a tight labor market is to increase wages, obviously. But that wage inflation feeds more generalized price inflation, because when an input cost (and labor is the biggest) gets more expensive, if you can't pass it along to your customers, you can't operate. In addition, wage inflation is stickier than other things when the cost rises, because it's impossible to give someone a raise and then take it back later. Which is why a labor shortage remains for now.

    The only alternative to that is waiters and waitresses and bartenders being paid more. ... but without it translating into a higher standard of living due to the wage inflation driving up the costs of things they need to live (due in large part to their increased wages, which is why it becomes a spiral). Worse, for those kinds of workers, it likely means a reduced standard of living, because a much larger percentage of what they earn goes to staples and rent and gas, where the inflationary impulse is much more pronounced.
     
  10. CD Boogie

    CD Boogie Well-Known Member

    "The situation has left us with a shortage of waiters and waitresses and bartenders and hotel workers, etc. It is why restaurants and bars around the country have help wanted signs on their windows, and some are even operating at reduced capacity because they don't have the staff to meet demand."

    Is it such a bad thing to have fewer restaurants and hotels? Maybe these owners who make their livings taking disposable income from others should have to learn new industries, too. Their workers are.

    I worked in restaurants for years, first as a dishwasher and later a waiter, made good money at a high end steak house, especially for someone who had dropped out of college at the time. That steakhouse is now closed, the owner retired.

    If the pandemic has proven anything, it's how many needless bars and restaurants there are, mainly serving as a point of variety and convenience for people. There doesn't need to be a steakhouse, seafood place, Tex-Mex place, Indian food, etc., in every town. If I really want chicken curry, I'll drive a few towns to get it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021
    sgreenwell and WriteThinking like this.
  11. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    Seems to me there's a middle ground between increasing wages and increasing costs to customers to cover those wages...and that would be decreasing the pay of C-suite and payouts to shareholders to cover the costs of increased wages.
     
    Inky_Wretch likes this.
  12. Mngwa

    Mngwa Well-Known Member

    If I'm tipping 50 plus dollars on a meal that costs $250, it follows that there could be a bump up in prices that would account for the tipping. The staff gets higher wages and I don't have to tip anymore. But I'm not spending more money.
     
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