The 'Kobe Bryant Will Leave The LA Lakers' thread

PC, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I respect what you're saying.

 

Just wanted to respond to your opinions with a few of my own.

1. You think he's a rapist. I, for one, find it hard to believe the word of a girl with three different semen samples (none of which were Bryants) inside the very panties she was wearing. Yes, there was a little bit of blood on Bryant's shirt, but if he was as endowed as she told her friends (actually, her friends used the word "bragged" ... their words, not mine), it's not that unusual there'd be a little bit of blood. Was Bryant an idiot for cheating on his wife? Yes, absolutely. But the character of this girl raises many, many, many doubts. Rape is such a heinous crime that, even just being accused of it (guilty or not) ruins a reputation forever. Anyone who doesn't have doubt about the word of this girl likely wanted to believe Bryant was guilty, anyway.

2. You think he's vastly overrated as a team player. Three rings. In a row. You don't do that, even with Shaq, if you're not a team player. Kobe Bryant's scoring exploits these last couple of seasons clearly illustrate that he subverted his game for the good of the franchise during those title-winning seasons. Now, with far less talent surrounding him, he is in a position where he has to score more. Look at the Lakers' record when he goes off. It's actually very impressive. People love to knock him for that 81-point game vs. Toronto. They never bring up the fact the Lakers trailed by 18 in the 2nd quarter of that game and L.A. needed every one of those points to win. Kobe scores 40+ = Lakers win.

3. You're tired of the Buchers, Scoops, Jemeles, Whitlocks hagiographical on Bryant. I'll agree with you on one respect: I'm sick and tired of every NBA player being compared to Michael Jordan. Why can't an NBA player just be who they are? I think it's hurting the game. LeBron was anointed the next Jordan before the NBA Finals began. Then he went out and didn't live up to that hype and people tuned out in droves. LeBron's story in itself is a great one; but LeBron being shoved down everyone's throat as the next Jordan is nauseating and turns people off. Bryant is not the next Michael Jordan. He's the first Kobe Bryant. Same for LeBron, D-Wade, T-Mac, etc., etc. However, these writers are far more connected into the NBA than you and I are. They've earned the right to write what they want. It's up to you whether you want to read it or not.

4. This sounds like more of an issue with other people than with him. Personally, I don't care how the guy is perceived by different genres of people. All I care about is Bryant the basketball player.

5. You're "disturbed and outraged" that people can't see Bryant for what he really is. Hmmmm. You're disturbed and outraged? Why the hell does it bother you so much? He's just a basketball player. And, I take offense to your insinuation that anyone who supports Bryant also has serious social issues. Just because you have all these opinions doesn't make you correct. In fact, I'd go so far as to say you may have some social issues of your own, considering the crusade you're on to enlighten the world on Bryant's alleged shortcomings. Slappy doesn't like Bryant, but I don't see Slappy starting 50,000 threads on Bryant. If someone doesn't like Bryant, then by all means, voice it. I just think you're going overboard. And now you accuse Bryant of being autistic? I don't even know how to respond to that.

As for this latest issue with the cell phone video, I don't think it's a big deal. He apparently frequents the establishment and knows the people he was talking to. Someone pulls out a phone and video tapes him talking to these acquaintances about the Laker situation. He drops the F-bomb and says the Lakers should've dealt Bynum for Jason Kidd, an opinion many people shared when it all went down. It's also something Kobe's been on record as saying for about a month now, except he added "fuck" in there. I'm not paying $1.99 for that.

Again, you'll likely accuse me of just being a Kobe mark. And, it's true, I am a Kobe Bryant fan because I respect the effort he's given the team since they traded for him in 1996. But if they trade him, I won't be supporting him anymore. I'm a Lakers fan, first and foremost. I have been since the late 70s. I stuck with the team during the Showtime era; I stuck with them during the Sedale Threatt-Cedric Ceballos era; I enjoyed the 1999-2002 run and I'm sticking with them through this down time, with or without Bryant.

Please, don't take this as a personal attack. It's only meant as a rebuttal to your post. I don't think either of us are going to change the other's mind. But, if I see something I don't agree with, I'm going to respond with my viewpoint, just like you would if I wrote something. This isn't a personal attack, Rok. I'm just trying to enlighten you. ;-) Haha.

 

1. Your opinion

2. OVERRATED!??!?!!? OVERRATED!?!?!?! If anything, he's UNDERRATED. If it wasnt for his teamwork and unselfishness, Shaq would've never gotten 3 rings buddy. And how about last season? Didn't he listen to PJAX? Didn't he start passing the ball(and during the 06 playoffs)? Yes, yes it did. And where did it get them? No where. And what happened when Kobe went off with those hi scoring games? The playoffs.
Way, way,waaaaaay off on this one.

3. Just because you hate Ric Bucher(I hate him too), dosn't mean you have to hate Kobe.

4. Hold on a second. Weren't you the one calling him the "And 1" player?
Secondly, that's no reason to hate a guy. You're gonna knock him for living in Italy? Come on now.

5. Serious social issues? What about his patience and maturity the past few years? Everyone knows Buss played Shaq and Kobe. He made Shaq think Kobe wanted him out andevvveryone was saying "Kobe got Shaq out". And what did Kobe do? He stayed silent because he didn't want to stirrup anything. Or how about how he burried the hatchet with PJAX? After all, PJAX was the one who wrote that Kobe was selfish. And now they're more close than ever. You know why? Because PJAX has seen an improvement in Kobe.
You wanna talk about social issues? How about Shaquille O'Neal. A grown ass man being jealous of a young 18 year old. Shaq dissed Kobe because(and Im not jokin with this" :
BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO GO OUT TO NIGHT/STRIP CLUBS TO PARTY AND DRINK.

Hey Shaq, in cased you didn't notice, the kid was 18 YEARS OF AGE. Secondly, is it a requirement to go to night clubs if you're an NBA player? Who cares if he didn't wanna go party? Isn't that what's looked down upon nowadays with all the Pac Man stuff goin' on?

 

Big Game and Chuck, you both deserve longer responses, but I'll just say this on my point #1 -

Find gingerbread's post re: the alleged rape. It might be in this thread, not sure. She has personally examined the court docs and is quite convinced that some type of sexual assault occurred. Knowing what I know of what the docs say, I agree. And it doesn't rely on semen samples.

Big - I'm not taking it personally. Chuck can tell you that. Hell, he ALWAYS rips me up and we're buds

 

rok: Kobe is the best player in the NBA right now. Lebron may be better the year after next, but right now Kobe is the best. I don't think any serious analyst or follower of the NBA would argue that he isn't among the top five players for certain.

How can you be overrated if you are the best player in the league?

 

Maybe because the best player doesn't always make the team better. They may score more, and pick up an extra win or two. But when the pluses are weighed against the minuses, is finishing seventh instead of eighth worth the baggage?

 

instead of eighth? How about instead of the lottery.

Slappy, Im one of those guys who dosn't believe in the "making the team better" philosophy all that much. How does a guy get make his team better? If they can't hit a shot or play d, they have no hope. Kobe's the one that's out there at 4 am everyday workin' his ass off while Kwame Brown is busy swiping $190 birthday cakes from people's hands(true story).
Let's face it slappy, no one would have this team any better than 7th in the west. Ronny Turiaf and Smush Parker are in the starting lineup. In my opinion, it's amazing that he even got them to the playoffs with those players in the west.

P.S. He tried to pass earlier in the season.
Result? They would've missed the playoffs if Kobe hadn't gone off on.

 

The best player in the league should also make the players around him better, instead of making the game about giving him the ball.
Case in point, tho I hate them both, is Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Jordan was a ball hog because he could be. But if Pippen doesn't have Jordan with him, does he make the top 50 of all time?
Did Wayne Gretzky make the players around him better?
It doesn't have to be about Kobe. The difference between the best scorer and the best player is how they involve their teammates and elevate their game.
If Kobe suddenly decided to pass the ball, it doesnt make him better. If it's a situation where he came out of the previous season and said to Phil Jackson, "We know I can score; let's work on an offense where I can get others to score so it creates other options." and works with his teammates to make it happen -- that is working on making your teammates better.

 

Slappy, that's exactly what they tried do. In case you haven't noticed, Lamar Odom ain't Scottie Pippen.

Kareem and James Worthy ain't walkin' through that door.

P.S. And even after aaaaaaaaaall that, the guy still came out and averaged 5 assists per this season. Getting 5 assists per with that crap? Come on now. You gotta admit that's pretty good.

 

five WHOLE assists?

And I'm not solely saying this about Kobe. But if you're the best player in the league, you have to be able to make the players around you noticably better. 3.4 to 3.6 points a game would not be that. But 3.4 points to 5.6 and say 7 rebounds to 8.5 would be...

 

Yeah 5 whole assists. The pretty good with the stuff he's got. Aaand considering how much shots he takes.

 

It's kind of a chicken-or-the-egg debate. Chuck's right -- Kobe's teammates are generally beyond worthless, and just stand around eating up space. So, is that because they're just awful players, or because they are now resigned to being spectators in the Kobe show?

I don't think the answer is entirely clear-cut.

Lamar Odom can play, but not with Kobe. That's probably partly Kobe's fault, and partly because Lamar has the attention span of a gnat. He's great when Kobe's out of the lineup. Kobe would be smart to try to integrate him more into the play when they are both of the floor, because it would make their offense much harder to deal with.

Luke Walton is a decent complementary player who will never score much.

Turiaf, Smush, Kwame and Farmar absolutely can't play at all. When they're on the floor Kobe should jack it up every single possession.