The Pirate Speaks: Leach thread v2.0

JayFarrar · Jan 1, 2010

Hokie_pokie said:

Judging by some of the posts in this thread, some of you guys obviously never played football or any other team sport beyond rec league. Most college football coaches require injured players (within reason) to attend practice because their presence -- even if it's just doing some light jogging, riding a bike or helping the trainers -- is critical to building the trust that brings 100 young men from varying backgrounds together as a team. Without that sense of brotherhood and accountability to each other, even the most talented teams can quickly become disconnected groups of self-serving individuals.

It's also pretty telling about the James kid's character that he obviously half-assed his way through what was undoubtedly a leisurely walk around the practice field. I can't tell you how many guys I've covered who had season-ending surgeries, yet were back watching practice within a couple days with their crutches because they couldn't stand to be away from their teammates and coaches. It's guys like that who earn everybody's respect, and their example of selflessness in turn makes the team stronger.

From past experience, James is actually pretty fortunate he only had to spend some quiet time in the garage; if a member of any team I ever played on had so blatantly shirked a simple assignment from the coaches, one of the other players probably would've waited for an opportunity and laid his ass out. Not that some of the chess-playing members of SportsJournalists.com would understand, but there's a different dynamic within a football team and spoiled, pampered prima donnas stick out like a sore thumb.
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I played college football and next time I see you, I'm going to lay your ass out for being so damn stupid.
*sigh*

dooley_womack1 · Jan 1, 2010

Which board regular is doing the Hokie_pokie?

The Big Ragu · Jan 1, 2010

JayFarrar said:

Hokie_pokie said:

Judging by some of the posts in this thread, some of you guys obviously never played football or any other team sport beyond rec league. Most college football coaches require injured players (within reason) to attend practice because their presence -- even if it's just doing some light jogging, riding a bike or helping the trainers -- is critical to building the trust that brings 100 young men from varying backgrounds together as a team. Without that sense of brotherhood and accountability to each other, even the most talented teams can quickly become disconnected groups of self-serving individuals.

It's also pretty telling about the James kid's character that he obviously half-assed his way through what was undoubtedly a leisurely walk around the practice field. I can't tell you how many guys I've covered who had season-ending surgeries, yet were back watching practice within a couple days with their crutches because they couldn't stand to be away from their teammates and coaches. It's guys like that who earn everybody's respect, and their example of selflessness in turn makes the team stronger.

From past experience, James is actually pretty fortunate he only had to spend some quiet time in the garage; if a member of any team I ever played on had so blatantly shirked a simple assignment from the coaches, one of the other players probably would've waited for an opportunity and laid his ass out. Not that some of the chess-playing members of SportsJournalists.com would understand, but there's a different dynamic within a football team and spoiled, pampered prima donnas stick out like a sore thumb.
Click to expand...

I played college football and next time I see you, I'm going to lay your ass out for being so damn stupid.
*sigh*
Click to expand...

Here on SportsJournalists.com, we call that check mate!

ArnoldBabar · Jan 1, 2010

Ace said:

Hokie_pokie said:

Judging by some of the posts in this thread, some of you guys obviously never played football or any other team sport beyond rec league. Most college football coaches require injured players (within reason) to attend practice because their presence -- even if it's just doing some light jogging, riding a bike or helping the trainers -- is critical to building the trust that brings 100 young men from varying backgrounds together as a team. Without that sense of brotherhood and accountability to each other, even the most talented teams can quickly become disconnected groups of self-serving individuals.

It's also pretty telling about the James kid's character that he obviously half-assed his way through what was undoubtedly a leisurely walk around the practice field. I can't tell you how many guys I've covered who had season-ending surgeries, yet were back watching practice within a couple days with their crutches because they couldn't stand to be away from their teammates and coaches. It's guys like that who earn everybody's respect, and their example of selflessness in turn makes the team stronger.

From past experience, James is actually pretty fortunate he only had to spend some quiet time in the garage; if a member of any team I ever played on had so blatantly shirked a simple assignment from the coaches, one of the other players probably would've waited for an opportunity and laid his ass out. Not that some of the chess-playing members of SportsJournalists.com would understand, but there's a different dynamic within a football team and spoiled, pampered prima donnas stick out like a sore thumb.
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Sigh.
Click to expand...

Double sigh.

Hokie Pokie, or whoever you are really, whatever legitimate points you might have made are lost forever in your douchebaggery. I guarantee you my athletic resume trumps yours -- try sticking to whatever your point was.

Machine Head · Jan 1, 2010

If we're going to ask who played a violent game beyond high school I can be part of that conversation.

Moving on..

Was Mike Leach using the kid --a kid with a diagnosed brain injury -- to settle a score with the family?

Boom_70 · Jan 1, 2010

JayFarrar said:

Hokie_pokie said:

Judging by some of the posts in this thread, some of you guys obviously never played football or any other team sport beyond rec league. Most college football coaches require injured players (within reason) to attend practice because their presence -- even if it's just doing some light jogging, riding a bike or helping the trainers -- is critical to building the trust that brings 100 young men from varying backgrounds together as a team. Without that sense of brotherhood and accountability to each other, even the most talented teams can quickly become disconnected groups of self-serving individuals.

It's also pretty telling about the James kid's character that he obviously half-assed his way through what was undoubtedly a leisurely walk around the practice field. I can't tell you how many guys I've covered who had season-ending surgeries, yet were back watching practice within a couple days with their crutches because they couldn't stand to be away from their teammates and coaches. It's guys like that who earn everybody's respect, and their example of selflessness in turn makes the team stronger.

From past experience, James is actually pretty fortunate he only had to spend some quiet time in the garage; if a member of any team I ever played on had so blatantly shirked a simple assignment from the coaches, one of the other players probably would've waited for an opportunity and laid his ass out. Not that some of the chess-playing members of SportsJournalists.com would understand, but there's a different dynamic within a football team and spoiled, pampered prima donnas stick out like a sore thumb.
Click to expand...

I played college football and next time I see you, I'm going to lay your ass out for being so damn stupid.
*sigh*
Click to expand...

Jay - this is the Ace analogy . You are falling into the Mike Leach trap.

Starman · Jan 2, 2010

MIKE LEACH never played college football, hardly surprising when his juvenile dick-measuring disciplinary practices have started to become public.

Chubby-gutted doughboys who never played out of high school are often the biggest guys on these hellfire-and-brimstone, my-way-or-the-highway, hell-bent-for-leather Junction Boys/Woody Hayes style grandstanding shows. People who have actually played the game know that these Harry High School showboat tactics do little or nothing to actually build team cohesion, and do more to alienate the team and build divisions with it.

You can't make a player have the desire to play. Either he has it or he doesn't. As a coach, your job is to find the guys who do, encourage them, and run off, discard or shunt to the side the ones who don't.

Spending more than about 30 seconds thinking up drama-queen tactics to attack the supposed lack of commitment and desire of your No. 6 wide receiver is a complete waste of time. If he wants to play, cool. If he doesn't, have him sit in a chair on the sidelines (not in a dark room, shed, cage, etc etc) and devote no more time or thought to him. If he refuses to cooperate in team activities, drop him from the team. Not that complicated.

DanOregon · Jan 2, 2010

This is a lose-lose-lose all around. James becomes known as the guy that got Leach bounced. Leach loses his gig. The administration looks like they forced out the most successful coach in the school's history, not because he suddenly lost a bunch of games, not because the program was being investigated by the NCAA, not because he got caught in some embarrassing off-field incident ala Pitino or Moeller. Not even because he got physically abusive with a player. But because he couldn't get along with the administration. Dumb.
Leach had established an "outlaw" mentality at Tech, an outpost for misfits, underdogs and outcasts. It was about the only way they could recruit in the Southwest. Without Leach, the school might as well be Baylor or New Mexico.

ucacm · Jan 2, 2010

you know, I keep seeing people predict that Texas Tech will turn to shit without leach. I believed it until I looked up the prior success of coaches at Tech before Leach. From 1991-1999, Tech only had one losing season. During Leach's time, he only had one truly outstanding season, which ended in a Cotton Bowl loss. The "bowl game in every season as coach" accomplishment is greatly diminished because of the proliferation of bowl games during Leach's tenure.

DanOregon · Jan 2, 2010

Not going to disagree with the bowl games, but I do think Leach established an identity for the program it never had before. Can't think of too many college coaches who have been featured on 60 Minutes.

The Big Ragu · Jan 2, 2010

You have to measure the success in lots of other ways, too. No one paid a ton of attention to Texas Tech football before Leach, but because of the wild offense he runs and his ability to find ignored players who may not have thrived in too many other places (Kliff Kingsbury [even though I don't think he recruited Kingsbury], Wes Welker, Graham Harrell, etc. I'd add Michael Crabtree, but Crabtree could have played anywhere. The fact that Leach got him demonstrates how far he raised the program's profile, though), he raised the program's profile a lot. Spike Dykes did a good job for a long time with TT's program, but his winning percentage was nowhere near what Leach's has been over the last 10 years and no one thought of TT's program as being even close to Nebraska, Oklahoma and Texas in the Big 12, which is the way it is now perceived because of Leach.

Losing that is going to hurt. Plus, they now have a fan base that is going to expect a home run hire--expectations have been raised--but any home run type of coach isn't touching that place. Funds are somewhat limited for facilities, the AD is a basketball guy who showed in his handling of Leach that he is not going to have his football coach's back, and the contract negotiations with Leach demonstrate that even if you perform miracles there you are going to have to scrap and fight for every penny and still fear the kind of Mickey Mouse way the Leach situation was just handled.

I won't definitively say that this is the death of Texas Tech football. But Leach was the perfect guy for as long as they could manage to keep him. Oddball enough so other programs were going to have pause about snatching him away. But innovative enough (and perception on him changed from gimmick artist to a guy who is a good football coach) that he could win some games and run a solid program that kept its nose clean despite how goofy he is. They are not going to be able to replicate that at a school like that.

Boom_70 · Jan 2, 2010

The Big Ragu said:

You have to measure the success in lots of other ways, too. No one paid a ton of attention to Texas Tech football before Leach, but because of the wild offense he runs and his ability to find ignored players who may not have thrived in too many other places (Kliff Kingsbury [even though I don't think he recruited Kingsbury], Wes Welker, Graham Harrell, etc. I'd add Michael Crabtree, but Crabtree could have played anywhere. The fact that Leach got him demonstrates how far he raised the program's profile, though), he raised the program's profile a lot. Spike Dykes did a good job for a long time with TT's program, but his winning percentage was nowhere near what Leach's has been over the last 10 years and no one thought of TT's program as being even close to Nebraska, Oklahoma and Texas in the Big 12, which is the way it is now perceived because of Leach.

Losing that is going to hurt. Plus, they now have a fan base that is going to expect a home run hire--expectations have been raised--but any home run type of coach isn't touching that place. Funds are somewhat limited for facilities, the AD is a basketball guy who showed in his handling of Leach that he is not going to have his football coach's back, and the contract negotiations with Leach demonstrate that even if you perform miracles there you are going to have to scrap and fight for every penny and still fear the kind of Mickey Mouse way the Leach situation was just handled.

I won't definitively say that this is the death of Texas Tech football. But Leach was the perfect guy for as long as they could manage to keep him. Oddball enough so other programs were going to have pause about snatching him away. But innovative enough (and perception on him changed from gimmick artist to a guy who is a good football coach) that he could win some games and run a solid program that kept its nose clean despite how goofy he is. They are not going to be able to replicate that at a school like that.
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Well said Ragu

One further point-- Leach team graduation rate -- 79%-- highest in The Big 12.

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The Pirate Speaks: Leach thread v2.0

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