The Soccer Thread (IV)

It might be a consideration, but what does it really matter?

Why would a player care what time of year they were playing? They don’t since it affects nothing.

I think this was already pretty much debunked.

As Twoback pointed out, it is only Capello’s bigotry that has him making the statements. It has nothing to do with the time of year or the salary cap.

Yes, but this only truly affects the young players coming out of college or the South and Central Americans that sign with MLS early on.

When Youri Djorkaef signed with MLS a few years ago, he was already out of the national team picture. He signed as an “end of career” type of thing even though he still had something left in the tank. MLS’ policy doesn’t affect this all that much.

The other counter to this would be that MLS’ policies aren’t that different than most teams. If you don’t offer enough money to buy my player, I’m under no obligation to sell him to you. This is exactly how it is everywhere else.

Again, your argument is on “valuation.” Why does it matter if England values the EPL title over a league cup? This does not affect player signing or league “quality.”

This is the equivalent of saying that the EPL is a better league than MLS because there are more MLS teams wearing the color blue and that means MLS teams like blue more and liking blue more than other colors is evil.

I’m sure there are copious amounts of reasons for it. I think the big one is that the fans in those regions have a preference for one way over another.

The mistake you are making here is deciding that because fans of a region like it one way fans of another reason have like that same way. The extension of this is that because fans here don’t like it the other way we must be stupid or our league must be considered inferior.

 

Why is it bias or bigotry for Capello to think MLS isn't good enough? He can't draw that conclusion on technical merits? It has to be some Euro-centric bias on his part?

In other news, the new FIFA rankings are out, and the UEFA playoff seeds will go to France (No. 9), Portugal (No. 10), Russia (No. 12) and Greece (No. 16).

U.S. is No. 11. Brazil still No. 1.

(I can't help noticing, by the way, that the MLS Cup is scheduled four days after an international window, in the Pacific Time Zone.)

 

An very solid argument can be made that the SPL is just as “bad” (outside of Rangers and Celtic) as MLS. However, Portugal decided to call in Pedro Mendes, who had been playing poorly for Rangers, and give him a start in a crucial World Cup qualifier.

Why would Mendes get a call in while playing in a shit league and not Beckham? The only explanation would be a Euro-centric bias.

How is David Beckham a “better” playing during the time he’s with Milan than with LA? His play doesn’t change. He’s at the age now where he’s not improving. The only explanation is that there exists a bias against a league.

Greece’s recent play in Europe merits them obtaining a seed over Ireland. I can’t say that I’m a big fan of the whole seeding procedure, but that is UEFA for you…

Okay, so? The Old Firm game was scheduled 3-days after a Europa Cup game (for Celtic) and 4-days after a Champions League Game (for Rangers).

USA is playing in Denmark that day. I’m guessing that Bradley won’t bring in any players from either MLS Cup side. If there is a Costa Rican then that could be an issue, but only sort of.

I don’t understand why it would matter.



Meanwhile… I love this

. You see a bunch of American flags and hear some USA chants. The whole nation took a holiday yesterday. Nice.

 

The main issue with Beckham is that Capello will not select him unless he is playing. MLS is off for most of the winter hence David needs to find a place to play during close season, only way to do that is to do loan deal in January. That's the stupid summer schedule effect.

 

It would matter because if Portugal or Greece or Ireland had players in one of the MLS Cup sides, then those players would be called away from their team's championship game preparation.

That would then undermine your logic for claiming that European players will come to MLS as long as it doesn't interfere with their international team duties -- because there's an obvious conflict there. The whole idea of the international window is that players can be called up to their international teams because they don't have any pressing responsibilities to their club. It's why cup finals, CL finals, etc., aren't scheduled immediately before or after an international window.

How is it only 'sort of' an issue for a Costa Rican player? That player, if he exists, would be playing in two absolutely vital games for his country. His attention's not going to be on the MLS Cup. It doesn't speak very highly of the league that its most important game isn't the primary focus, four days beforehand, of the players who are about to play in that game. And if it's an Irish or Greek or Portuguese player, then you have to add in about 12 hours of travel and about nine time zones.

And there's a big difference between CL and Europa League games and international games, mainly that they involve the actual clubs. You've also got four Old Firm SPL games a year; it stands to reason that one of them would come before or after one of the six CL or EL group-stage games.

As for Portugal and Mendes, I don't understand how a decision made by Portugal's manager is proof of Euro-centric bias on the part of England's manager. But I do understand why Capello would think playing in Serie A would be better preparation than playing in MLS. There's something to be said for playing high-level competition.

 

Yeah, but not really. Good try though.

Did you know that Rangers play three days after the international date, one day before MLS Cup? Why does it matter that MLS Cup falls days after an international date? No one else takes that weekend off.

Pedro Mendes will play for Portugal in a playoff game that will have him with his country and then will go back to Rangers in time to play on Saturday.

Sorry, but your logic just doesn’t wash here. There is no conflict.

If the SPL feels that you can travel and return to play on a Saturday then you can certainly travel and return to play on a Sunday.

The primary feeder for MLS is American players. As such, they should be the primary concern. They don’t have Greek or Portuguese national teamers.

I don’t understand how a team can play for their nation one day and then three days later play for their club in Europe and it not be a problem for you. However, if their club is in MLS suddenly it is “stupid.”

It is a the schedule. Big deal. The player will get some much needed vacation time after the 22nd. Sounds to me like a good deal.

There is something to be said about playing against better competition. However, Beckham is who he is. The guy isn’t going to “get better” at his age. He’s only going to get older.

Playing for Milan just gives the manager an excuse to bring him in. Put it this way, if you do a “blind taste test” and are asked “Which player is better? Player A on AC Milan or Player B on Los Angeles Galaxy” the answer will always be Player A regardless of the fact that they are the same exactly player.

I point out the Mendes issue because Mendes is playing against the same shit competition, Aberdeen, St Mirren, Kilmarnock, that Beckham is playing against. Yet, somehow the Portuguese manager doesn’t have to justify bringing the guy in or make statements about the league he’s playing in while Capello constantly makes derogatory remarks.

 

If you want to make the claim that MLS Cup is no more important than a Rangers-Aberdeen game, then go right ahead. But if you want to claim that MLS Cup is a 'special' game, then you can't justify it being three days after an international window. No single Old Firm or Big Four game rises to the level of being a championship game.

The season can't stop for a week and a half after every international window. The games have to go on. But when it's the biggest game on the calendar, maybe it should be given a bit more priority of placement.

I'm aware that MLS' prime source of talent is American players. I'm also aware that you claimed earlier that European players would be happy to play in MLS as long as it didn't affect their international careers. This is the point I'm addressing by pointing out the scheduling. (Not for nothing, what if the U.S. had stumbled and ended up in the playoff matches?)

You can't say that MLS can attract European players in one breath, then say that the priority is American talent in the next. Either one is fine, but where they come into conflict, you can't have it both ways.

I also think Beckham's a special case. If Capello just flat drops him, he'll get roasted, because Beckham's the most popular player of his generation -- he got a standing ovation for running down the touchline at Wembley on Wednesday. He's assuredly not one of England's 23 best now, and Capello knows that. By doing what he's doing, maybe he makes it seem as though Beckham's earned his place, rather than being handed a legacy spot (which is what is actually happening).

And the Portuguese national team draws players from a wider range of clubs than does England's. They've got a couple from Malaga, a couple from Atletico Madrid and a whole bunch from the Portuguese league. With the exception of Beckham, England's entire recent team played for Premier League clubs, and almost all of those were top-half clubs. (When Hargreaves comes back, that'll change.)

The most recent callup of Mendes was also down mostly to a rash of injuries. He's clearly not in the top 23 for his country. As for criticism, I don't know if it existed or not. I'm gonna guess if I spoke Portuguese, I might be able to find some; in any case, it certainly surprised everyone, not least of all Mendes.

 

Yes, but the final game of the season in the EPL and SPL is just like any other week. That is what you want. You want it to be something that is not special. So, why care about whether it is special or not?

You haven’t pointed out that the MLS schedule would affect their international careers. So it doesn’t really matter all that much.

If the US stumbled then I’m sure they would take the best players and it wouldn’t be a problem. If players can play in Europe after three days, I’m sure they can play here after four.

Why? The two are not mutually exclusive.

MLS can attract European players if they paid serious salaries and had an established setup where they were perceived as having the best players. At this current time, they are primarily a league to allow American players a means to develop talent so that they can become part of the national team picture.

Okay, so you admit that Capello is just using the MLS standard as a means to freeze out Beckham when in reality it has nothing to do with the league’s quality or Beckham’s quality and everything to do with the league’s image as a convenient excuse.

A Portuguese buddy of mine would have told me about any criticism. None came.

 

Frankly, I don't give a shit if MLS has a championship game or not. I really don't. You're ascribing some sort of MLS-undermining agenda to me, when all I've done is point out reasons why the league doesn't attract top talent and why it's not considered a top-tier league. My point is that, having chosen to have a championship game, MLS has scheduled that game at a really shitty time.

Most championship games, in most sports, the participating teams want more than two or three days to prepare. You don't have players from the Super Bowl teams going to the Pro Bowl four days before the Super Bowl. (Shit, now that they're being played in the same place, with the Pro Bowl first, players from the Super Bowl teams won't even play in the game.)

I didn't even point out the fact that Rooney, Gerrard and Torres, among others, will all be out of their teams' lineups this weekend because of injuries they picked up during international duty. Take five or six players out of the MLS Cup for that reason, and all of a sudden, it's a sub-par championship game.

 

For the quality they've both shown through the tournament, this Ghana-Brazil U-20 final has been somewhat of a letdown.

 

Curious what you think of the proposal for MLS to get on the world calendar and bring the game inside to domes, etc., during the winter. Ideally, it's the way to go for MLS to grow into a world-class league, but it won't happen.

 

I agree. Really boring game. I was actually looking forward to watching this match. But it's just been a waste of time. No creativity or offensive flair.