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The Undefeated debuts

Discussion in 'Journalism topics only' started by Songbird, May 17, 2016.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Where do I begin on that? I'll start with WAR, since I have been through this before. I can find at least three different ways to calculate a player's WAR from the first page of a google search -- each with their own set of biases. None of them are straightforward measures. They are contrivances that give you numbers that are all over the place. Using one measure, Player A may have a higher WAR than Player B, but using the next site's calculation you will find the opposite.

    None of them are particularly meaningful measures necessarily, because they subjectively weight a small number of variables that were easily quantified, but are not necessarily the variables that have the biggest impact on making one player more valuable (from a winning standpoint) than another.

    Those variables are things such such as "batting runs," "base running runs," etc. that someone likely gravitated toward precisely because they were easily quantifiable (the basis for a lot of junk statistics). Who is to say that those are the most meaningful variables for how a player contributes to a win, and who is to say that there aren't dozens of NOT easily quantified variables that may potentially be way more meaningful to how valuable a player is to winning?

    On top of it, it does the second thing I was talking about with an attempt at introducing control variables: for example, "park" and "league" adjustments, that may overadjust or unnecessarily adjust -- there is just no way to know, unless you introduce control variables in a scientific way, not subjectively deciding that something needs to be adjusted for. The worst was one measure's "positional adjustment" (fangraphs) that weights position players differently (i.e. -- corrects), without any good explanation anywhere of who or what determined those weightings. ... or why.

    It's a measure of some sort. But it's not a particularly meaningful measure, and there is no statistical soundness (for the purposes of analysis), if that was the intent.
     
  2. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    I meant the "of course" on the most basic level. The most basic, like - "teams that outscore the opponent by more points per game game tend to have better records" and "teams with really good turnover margins in football win more than teams with bad ones." It's kind of a "of course" factor.

    I agree with the rest of your post. The "Fire Joe Morgan" Web site actually has some embarrassing moments in it, now that you read it again. (The site always wanted to have it both ways, like most comedy writers like to have things both ways, but some of the stat crunching on that site just looks a little off now.)
     
  3. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

  4. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

    The Bomani stuff is pretty good.
     
  5. dirtybird

    dirtybird Well-Known Member

    This makes sense, but it also speaks to the enormous range of what is considered analytics. Something like WAR is very conceptual, and there's a case not all the meaningful. But something like what percent of a basketball team's possessions end in a turnover or how many points they average per possession who how many points Dwight Howard averages when he finishes a possession in the post, all numbers that seem pretty grounded and conceptually not that much of a leap.
     
  6. Elliotte Friedman

    Elliotte Friedman Moderator Staff Member

    Liked the piece on CM Newton.

    Also like the one about Malcolm X and Jackie Robinson. Had no idea their relationship was so nasty.
     
  7. Just the facts ma am

    Just the facts ma am Well-Known Member

    Just like that, many people, black and white, who had no idea who Malcolm X was other than a brand, got a little more educated. Thanks ESPN.

    Jackie Robinson vs. Malcolm X
     
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I'd bet there are lots of people out there who have no idea who Malcolm X was -- as sad as it is to write that. I'd also bet that the vast majority of people who read that story weren't among them.

    Still, the story definitely did a good job of covering what was forgotten tension / dislike between Malcolm X and Jackie Robinson, so it was very educational. I learned something about a piece of the sub-history of the civil rights movement that I only knew vaguely. It also did a good job of explaining the issues the civil rights movement faced with separatists like Malcolm X at odds with people like Martin Luther King Jr. and Jackie Robinson, who simply wanted equality of opportunity and saw peaceful resistance as the path. It was a good story.
     
  9. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

  10. Mr. Sunshine

    Mr. Sunshine Well-Known Member

    So the kid celebrating came in second?
     
  11. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

  12. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

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