Thoughts and Prayers: The Religion Thread

I would agree that much of any problems with Christianity right now have more to do with politics than anything.

I really don't politicize my faith much at all, and maybe that's why I can live it, happily and with a clear conscience. It is very personal and I get a lot out of it. It's meaningful to me, and it's worth sharing. And those are the only arguments and/or anecdotes I'd use for ever suggesting it to anyone or encouraging them to join me, either in my church, or to go to any church.

The Mercy Culture church may have big dreams and big ideas, a big following and a lot of big donations, but really, the important thing in any church is still the message(s) and how well and how consistently it resonates with its members. There is always a sort of "core group" in any church -- the people who are most visibly recognized, most widely known and most active: an "in" crowd, even within a church, and those are the ones who seemed to be interviewed for that article. And even despite -- maybe even because of -- what they said, I'd question them, not so much their sincerity but their exuberance. Because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't actually be willing to be crucified, or stoned, or anything else, for their faith the way Jesus and the apostles were. I'm also sure that not all the members of Mercy Culture are the same, or believe to the same extent or with the same certainty. In fact, the majority are probably not at that level of profession of their faith, so it'll be a while before that church takes over the country.

Otherwise, there's really not much that's that offensive or even off-putting in that article. Every Christian, eventually, aspires to inspire others to the faith. Every Christian worth their salt will offer to listen to someone who wants to talk about something that's bothering them, or who expresses interest in their faith or their church. It's part of the mission -- that everyone will hear and know of Christ.

But it doesn't mean everyone is going to do it on street corners, or be in-your-face about it. Some may, but most won't, and most won't be "called" to do so, either. And the dramatics with the music and the drums? It's all just setting the scene, bringing it alive in the writing, which was very good. Personally, I'm all for lots of worship music. It's amazing and, rightly or wrongly, the worship portions of church are considered the best/favorite parts by many. That's because there really is a lot of good music to be found in church; it can resonate, inspire, and fill you up, in a good way, as it were, to the point that the church/building (or my car!) actually does come alive, and those in it are "feeling it." To paint that as a bad thing, the better to make it seem like the cult-type setting the story references, is disingenuous.

I don't know if anyone else here has listened to Robert Morris of Gateway Church, but I have. He's almost daily bread for me, in fact -- and my favorite, by far, of all the mega-church/more famous pastors I've ever heard on TV. He's very easy to listen to and learn from, and I try to catch his half-hour broadcast every day. He's the only one I really listen to regularly, and I've yet to hear anything I'd consider even remotely offensive or off-putting. I've forgotten the exact context of the mention of Morris' name in the article from this morning, and I can't open it up again, but I'd be happy to be blessed by him.

Anyway, I also have to say that I hardly consider "nones" to be "the" problem with our country. I think they can, and in many cases, are, part of the problem. There are many factors causing issues in this country, and I believe a lack of direction, standards, guidelines for living are among them in the case of many. I think a good, relatable church can provide a positive foundation and a lot of support in many ways, so if someone is interested, I don't see much downside to attending. Conversely, the upside can be substantial.

Just as with Christians, there are good examples and bad examples of "nones." Therefore, I wouldn't be all-inclusively judgmental of someone who isn't religious/spiritual, or who isn't as much so as me. We're all in different places on the path of life, and I may never know if or when someone may turn toward God, even if they never did before.

Oftentimes, things change for people, so I'd always leave things between them and God. I can only share my experiences, which have been pretty much uniformly good.

 

There have been “Mercy Churches” in one way or another for a long time, in every part of the country. We have 350 million people. There’s going to be some over the top Christians.

these churches pop up, burn hot for awhile, and usually fall apart due to leadership issues built around not a polity or general governance structure but a cult of personality.

 

There was a lot of fevered writing describing the worship service, which sounded like … most other contemporary worship services. Much of that could have described the early service at my church, and if we were any more middle of the road we’d play Delilah at night and be playing on the speakers at franchised hair salons during the day while 51-year-old women named Sheila cut bangs all day while smelling like Salem Lights and missed car payments.

 

Some Christian theologians embrace the concept of universal reconciliation -- that Jesus' sacrifice saved all mankind regardless of religion. History of Christian universalism - Wikipedia.

It comes to mind because I viewed a documentary awhile back on Carlton Pearson, a protege of Oral Roberts who once led one of the biggest Pentecostal congregations in Tulsa. The slaughter in Rwanda caused him to have a crisis in faith and what he considered an epiphany that evolved into belief in universalism.

The bishops didn't appreciate the idea that they weren't extra-special in god's eyes. Pearson was declared a heretic and his megachurch went down the tubes. Interesting guy though.

 

The story refers to 40 uninterrupted minutes of music. I like a lot of bands, but the odds that 40 consecutive minutes of a concert are entirely to my liking? Pretty low.
But I guess they have the filled pews and offering plates to prove the thing works.

 

Yes, the "Love Wins" theory. It's a nice thought one can talk oneself into. People certainly have.

 

This is what I hate about a lot of the condemnation/condescension toward my faith and people who practice it. I don't feel or act special in God's eyes. I mean, I like to think that I am, and sometimes, I feel comforted that I am, but only in the sense that I know I'm loved, and blessed to be, not that I'm "better" or more special than anybody else. I think that's the mindset of most common Christians.

If bishops or other leaders feel and act beyond that, well, then, the problem is with them, not with Christianity.

 

Alma, from his post above, seems to not embrace the idea of universalism. Which means he does think he’s better than all non-Christians, in the sense he’s saved and they’re not.

 

I really had a higher opinion of you than someone who keeps saying "the Bible," over and over.

 

It is the religion thread, Charlie Brown. At a certain point with any branch of any religion, you buy it or you don’t.

 

Where do they hold services, the Fillmore East?