Thoughts and Prayers: The Religion Thread

God won’t kill you, he will allow someone else with free will to do so, without mitigation, justification or excuse.

and by he I am using an imperfect pronoun. God is without sex or gender.

 

Weren't we just discussing a particular quote? This intentionally obtuse act of yours gets old really fast.

How about anything that tells people they have to be a part of the church to get into heaven rather than just being good people and caring for others?

 

You don’t believe in God tho - right?

 

Yeah, I’d argue fewer people were like that back then. Rougher times and all.

2000 years on, cultures worldwide are kinder operations with Christianity to borrow from. The faith has been so successful in spreading kindness that what was once our uniqueness is now a baseline for pretty much anyone

 

Or our lives have become more comfortable since then and that allows us the luxury of caring for others more because survival doesn't have to be as much of a day-to-day priority. As you said, those were rougher times.

Do you only do good in the world because someone told you to? If that's true, I feel sorry for you. Human beings have the capacity for empathy and selflessness without anybody teaching it to us. Of course, we also have the capacity to be heartless and selfish in spite of what we are taught. You are trying to give Christianity credit for parts of humanity that it didn't create. There are atheists who live as good and caring people and there are Christians who are horrible, selfish pieces of shit. You keep trying to sell this crap about Christianity creating morality and decency in the world and that simply isn't the case.

 

We’ve had codified morals since the days of Hammurabi.

 

Clearly this thread has become hands-off because, clearly, it has been so needlessly and purposely poisoned by heyabbott that anyone who might have typically joined in such a discussion refuses to jump in. So, now, it has no where else to go, no direction in which to take it, unless someone different does jump in.

I'll give it a try. First off, thanks, oop, for saying to heyabbott what needed to be said while we all sat reading and shaking our heads at his posts. I was close to reporting him to the mods and asking that he be banned from this thread. There comes a point, sometimes, where someone is adding nothing, literally, to anything, and is just being a raging bull in a china shop, charging, snorting, shaking his head and horns, and spitting rabid saliva all over a bunch of people who don't even know who he is. It got so bad here, I actually got tears welling up in my eyes for him last night as I read this thread.

Second, there are so many talking points that haven't been addressed (because everyone is just staying away from this recent mess).

Here are a couple, just to try to get things back on track:

Christians do not need to be part of a church. Based on Christian beliefs, you could never have darkened the door of a physical building-church, and you could still be a Christian. Yes, even a better one than some of the those who do go to one. It isn't likely to happen because, usually, you start to seek out like-minded people to join with. But if you never do, it doesn't mean you are not, or can't be, a Christian.

Jonas Salk would not not get to heaven because he was a Jew, even if he was a practicing Jew. There are plenty of Jewish Christians, or Christian Jews. He might not get in if he didn't believe in Christ. Big difference. But whether he did or didn't wouldn't be determined by any of us, or even by him, anyway. Based on Christian beliefs, the heart and life of everyone will be judged by God alone, and He will know how it really is when the time comes. So, it almost doesn't matter what we believe or think would happen with regard to Jonas Salk, or some mass murderer who may have repented and said he came to believe in Christ on his deathbed. The wonder of the Christian faith is that it can include all kinds. But, going on a case-by-case basis, whether it will, or not, is not to be determined by us.

Most people have reasons -- comfort, strength, inspiration, direction, inclusion, something -- that they've either turned to, stayed with, or maybe, returned to, any religion, and those things usually are because of the good, the positives, that it adds to their lives, or because of needs that it fulfills. And then, further experiences of it build on that foundation, so that a person's faith becomes a very real "thing" to them.

Faith is often -- usually -- a legitimate, good thing, and not something that needs to or should be discounted, even given any questions or heretofore unknowable aspects, or imperfectly executed things about it.

 

Many, many people have been asking for something to be done about heyabbott for years. No point asking anymore.

 

The problem with the Salk example is that Christianity teaches that he did have to accept Christ as his savior to get into heaven. It absolutely matters what we think because what we are talking about here is our understanding of religion and faith. I can certainly understand criticism of a religion that puts praying to the right god ahead of living a good life and dedicating oneself to good works. This is especially true because our religion is most often determined not by choice, but by birth. How many people really change their faith from the one they were raised with? I'm not saying nobody does, but I think it is fair to say most of us stick with something at least close to what we were taught growing up.

Christians may not have to be part of the church, but the church can definitely use the concept that accepting Christ is the only way into heaven to make sure people join up. This would have been especially true in the early days of the church. There is a cynical view that organized religion is about controlling people and funneling their work and money where the leaders of the religion want those things to go. Unfortunately, the evidence available regarding the history of most religions fits that cynical view very well.

 

This has some good points, some of which I agree with but that I'd like to address more fully than I can right now. I need to go to work but will come back to it tonight.

 

You can’t be Jewish and be a Christian. Jesus is not the messiah and Is not divine if you are Jewish. If you believe that, you are not Jewish.

simple test. No such thing as Jews for Jesus. It’s just a Christian sect looking at the delegitimization of Judaism.

Some, many I suspect, Christians treat those who they believe cannot get into heaven as second class citizens. Will refrain from Socializing, hiring and letting their children play with ours. Not all but enough to make it personal and make it hurt. Try being the only family in the class that’s Jewish not invited to a family class BBQ and explain to
Your kids why. And if you can walk away from the experience with anything but bile and disgust for those kind of Christians explain it.

yeah Salk out, Ted Bundy in. Trump in, Ghandi out. It’s not true, the it’s the classic example of your perception becoming your reality.

Einstein hell. Himmler heaven.

 

Himmler was a pagan occultist. Find a better example.