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Two Years On: Obamacare

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Zeke12, Mar 23, 2012.

  1. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Sandra Day O'Connor was an utter hack.

    She was a hack when I disagreed with the result of her fifth vote and she was a hack when I agreed with the result.
     
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I didn't mean to ignore Lochner. I tend to think of the Lochner era as the first era of "judicial activism with regard to economic issues." But it's an important distinction, because for 150 years or so, the Supreme Court ONLY heard cases with regard to economic issues. They weren't in the business of creating social policy.

    I love Oliver Wendall Holme's dissent in Lochner. And he was right. But what wasn't out of the norm was that until, and through, then the Supreme Court was not in the business of deciding social issues that don't come within miles of the Constitution. Supreme Court cases always came down to contracts--economic issues--and even though they went off the rails with Lochner, it still was a case about labor contracts.

    The reason I started what I was saying with the Warren Court--with regard to where we are now--is that that was when the Supreme Court decided it was going to be the mechanism to get America to do the social things it wasn't doing by the proper legislative means. Things like integrating schoosl. Once that barn door was opened, it opened the door for everything and anything to be "legislated" by the court, and we had the Supreme Court trying to stretch the Constitution to include things like whether a Jehovah's Witness can stand on his head and say the pledge of alliance while wearing a rubber.

    Most of what they preside over today -- and create social policy via their rulings -- bears no relation to the Constitution. Take Roe v. Wade. Every election cycle, people who are passionate about abortion tell us we need to elect a candidate because of the people they will appoint to the court. Because Roe v. Wade might be overturned or they want it to be upheld. The thing is, if abortion really was covered by the Constitution (and there was a vague "right to privacy" that you can somehow get by throwing a bunch of amendments in a hat and juggling them), the ruling couldn't simply be changed by changing the social agendas of the justices. The Constitution is the Constitution. So why do we now sit and worry about the social agendas of Supreme Court justices? Their agendas shouldn't matter. Why are rulings in jeopardy every decade or two when the agendas of the justices might change? It's because we opened a door to something that has played itself out to its natural conclusion.

    The Lochner era was brutal. But I don't see that as the starting point of what I am talking about, because Lochner was certainly within the tradition of the Supreme Court hearing cases about "This guy owes me that" or "This labor contract says such and such."
     
  3. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    (1) I think you err in dismissing a labor issue during that era as not a social issue.

    (2) Your comment about the Jehovah's Witness standing on his head, etc., is funny. There's a great 7th Circuit opinion by Judge Posner where he - clearly frustrated by the trail of breadcrumbs the Supreme Court has left him - vents about feeling like he's supposed to be getting out a tape measure to figure out the distance between the candy canes and the Christmas Tree at City Hall.
     
  4. suburbia

    suburbia Active Member

    I agree that a 5-4 decision either way would be lamented by the losing side as another politically-motivated decision, done along partisan lines.

    If it's even a 6-3 decision one way or the other, that argument goes out the window. The losing side will have no choice (no credible choice, anyway) except to grudgingly accept the court's decision and try to get their way through other, more constitutional means.
     
  5. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I think that 5-4 would be OK if, say, you had Kennedy in the dissent and Scalia or Roberts joining the majority. You just need somebody, anybody, to flip.
     
  6. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    Am I misreading, or are some of you saying Scalia will vote to uphold the law?
     
  7. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    There is a lot of speculation that he may. He and Roberts are certainly more likely to than Alito and Thomas. It's largely because he concurred in Gonzales v. Raich, an expansion of the commerce clause that otherwise fell along party lines.
     
  8. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    I'll defer to you legal eagles, but I thought - based on some of his questioning - that he was firm in the strike it down camp.
     
  9. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    I know what you mean, from the oral arguments. But I would caution again about putting too much stock in oral arguments. Also, no one on the bench asks more questions than Scalia. He really enjoys that part of the job. He likes to be a devil's advocate.
     
  10. Boom_70

    Boom_70 Well-Known Member

    Congress should pass some laws that regulate the amount of oil that oil commodities firms can store. They can use Wickard v. Filburn as a precedent.
     
  11. old_tony

    old_tony Well-Known Member

    29 pages (so far). Completely enjoyed reading every post (even the ones I seriously disagree with).

    What I want to know is this: When the liberal judges vote their beliefs, why is it so much less political than when the conservative judges vote their beliefs? And the idea that someone would switch to the other side just to keep the SC from being considered political is ludicrous.
     
  12. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Oh, that's not at all the case. This is a case-by-case examination. Thurgood Marshall was a political hack. John Paul Stevens was, largely, a political hack.
     
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