UFC's Time?: UFC on ESPN + A defense of the UFC and MMA in general

Re: UFC's time?: ESPN News to air Liddell-Jackson weigh-in live today, Fri. 5.25.07

I agree Moddy. I think a lot of the fans are men who just haven't come to grips with their sexuality -- not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

Re: UFC's time?: ESPN News to air Liddell-Jackson weigh-in live today, Fri. 5.25

It's probably not a coincidence that the appearance of gladiatorial games as a widespread public spectacle did not occur until the Roman republic became the Roman Empire. I think that is a good point, Mod.

That said, I don't find it any more distasteful than boxing. As Gimpy ably pointed out earlier in the thread, there are less concussions in MMA than boxing. Now, I understand the distaste for boxing, at least from an intellectual perspective. It is rather primitive, seeing as how the object is to continually strike your opponent and the 'optimal' result is to incapacitate your opponent via concussion.

The thing that is superior about MMA is that you can win a match without attempting to concuss your foe. Sure, certain boxing matches are won primarily on body punching, but no boxing matches occur without at least one of the opponents either taking repeated blows to the head or being concussed.

MMA matches are often won on submissions, with little or no punches landed to the head of either fighter.

I heard Brian Kenny, a guy I respect a lot, present the argument of boxing's superiority to MMA last night. It wasn't remotely compelling. But it's understandable that Kenny made the pitch - he is basically arguing for his continued employment, much as an oil Exxon executive would insist to a Ford Motors rep that the car company should not switch to a solar-powered model.

Boxing is a martial arts contest. MMA is a martial arts contest. Again, if people want to talk about banning all martial arts contests in a civilized society, I can see that. But, IMO, not only is boxing not superior to MMA in terms of skill level and presentation, it is also a less accurate representation of how hand-to-hand combat usually unfolds. That is, 2 people fighting almost never just stand there and trade punches; things tend to end up on the ground.

All nations have militaries. All military personal are taught martial arts. That's what militaries do - they fight. And things work best for a given military when the people who have to do the fighting actually possess the learned skills to fight. As with any other ability in a competitive species, if 2 or more people possess the same skill they are often going to want to see who is the more skilled of the 2.

Unfortunately, there's a little more contact in these types of contests than your typical spelling bee. But I doubt Homo Sapiens are anywhere close to the developmental point where hand-to-hand combat will be given up anytime soon. As long as that's the case, I'd rather see contests involving trained participants competing under athletic commissions with medical staff present than some idiotic free-for-all down at the local bar. There are those of both genders who do enjoy that type of thing.

I like boxing and MMA, but I respect those who don't. I sometimes feel guilty for liking them, but I do like them. I am a member of a competitive species, what can I say?

I think even PETA members wouldn't try to intercede in the contests which go on between, for example, male lions fighting to see which will lead the pride. Why is it 'noble' and 'beautiful' to witness those spectacles but humans competing in hand-to-hand combat is supposedly so base and contemptible (at least that's what moralists will openly declare, some who enjoy boxing, etc. when no one's around to chide them for it)?

Sounds anthropocentric to me. I think a lot of people dislike MMA because it hits too close to home for them. Are we really so barbaric? Why do I enjoy watching this? Could I compete in that? There often seems to me a 'Thou doth protest too much' quality to many of the recriminations against MMA (and boxing). I'm not saying that about you, Mod, or anyone else on this thread or board, it's just a general observation.

To that, I say: Relax. It's a contest, it's a sport. It's a vicarious thrill. I can't tell anyone not to go into boxing or MMA more than I can tell anyone not to go into the military, or not to get plastic surgery, or not to drive after they had a drink; if you want to do something dangerous, it's your choice. Nobody is forcing anyone to fight, or to go into a high-collision sport like football where injuries abound.

I just get tired of all the sanctimony and supposed high-mindedness of MMA's critics. Again, I'm not talking about anyone specifically on SJ, just in general. Please, stop. I think you're being disingenuous, if not with yourself than with your audience. This country, this world, was built on fighting. Between humans and between species. Now you want to turn off the spicket, because it offends your 'advanced' sensibilities?

Good luck.

 

Re: UFC's time?: ESPN News to air Liddell-Jackson weigh-in live today, Fri. 5.25.07

Let's go all the way and remove our critical thinking and opposable thumbs.

 

Re: UFC's time?: ESPN News to air Liddell-Jackson weigh-in live today, Fri. 5.25

Looking up anthropocentric.

 

Re: UFC's time?: ESPN News to air Liddell-Jackson weigh-in live today, Fri. 5.25.07

UFC isn't a fad. But the comparison isn't UFC-boxing. Boxing, which hasn't produced a true breakout star since De la Hoya at the 1992 Barcelona games, is all but dead. It's between UFC and pro wrestling.

I understand that UFC isn't fixed like WWE and doesn't involve Chuck Lidell smashing a folding chair into someone's back. But it has the same basic appeal and is the domain of the same basic age group: 13-to-24 year old males. UFC's challenge is to become a sport that men follow for their entire lives. Pro wrestling is transitory....you don't see many 42-year old WWE fans (or at least 42-year old WWE fans who don't own a trailer home, a mullet or a wife with a mullet). Once guys hit their mid-to-late 20s they generally stop following pro wrestling and a 13-year old kid in Oshkosh takes their place. I want to see how many hardcore 40-something UFC fans exist in 15 years before I am ready to declare that UFC has gone mainstream.

 

Buck - Thanks a lot. I really appreciate that, particularly coming from you.

Pope - That's a good point. I will say that the sport (UFC, anyway) has existed for around 15 years, and that those who liked the sport then still like it today. But I'm not sure if that includes the age bracket you're talking about.

Charlie Brown - See, I don't think it's an evolutionary regression. This is who we are, as a species. I think it would be nice if we could get beyond that, but to pretend that we're not combative and competitive flies in the face of all recorded human history. It's like the USA government attempting to influence the politics of say, Latin American countries: We don't talk about it as openly or as much as we used to, but we still do it. That's my take.

 

If UFC is "dirty fighting," then Greco-Roman wrestling, freestyle wrestling, judo, taekwondo, and jiu-jitsu are all "dirty." The idea that boxing is the "proper" way to fight in an anachronism from the 19th century. Yeah, let's have people punch each other in the head for 36 minutes, and if someone gets hit so hard they get knocked off their feet, make them get right up and stand in a corner for eight second so they can absorb more brain trauma. Let's also play football with leather helmets and no forward pass while we're at it.

 

I can understand not liking the sport. What I can't understand are people like you and Moddy, who take potshots at the people who do.

 

Absolutely.

I just quoted your post because I wanted to give you a response. While I was writing the first paragraph I started to think about it more, and just wrote the rest. Sorry if it seemed like it was meant against you personally, but it was not written with that intent.

And I agree, most of the people whom I know that I would consider highly intelligent don't like MMA. That's cool. As someone who considers himself a progressive, this is definitely an area where others are vastly more 'progressive' than I.

 

I hear club Villa is going to have a video covering the fight

Any SJ'rs want in the mix - PM Rok or I

JDV

 

I never intimated you WEREN'T entitled to feel how you feel about the sport. I just think the cheap shots are uncalled for.
By the way, I like how, in your apology, you were still able to call myself and anyone else who likes the sport less than reasonably intelligent. Nicely done.
I'm not here to get into a thread war with anyone, cuz like you said, everyone is entitled to their own opinion about the sport. But, I will speak up when I think someone is calling me an idiot for liking something. I'm sure you would do the same for yourself (I'd at least hope you would).