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Ukraine Always Get What You Want

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by TigerVols, Feb 12, 2022.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    It's not literally the same thing. But that isn't the point. The reason that bureacracies want secrecy -- and will endlessly work to expand what is kept secret -- is exactly the same.

    "National security" is a catch-all phrase that allows a bureacracy to hide things and work in, well, secrecy, avoiding criticism and working to grow its power as the primary objective (which is how bureacracies behave). Which is why the apparatus involved with our national security has grown into a hydra-headed monster. The "secrecy" is a tool that serves multiple purposes, and the amazing part about Max Weber is that he was detailing these characteristics well before things like the NSA existed.

    And I understand that millions of people don't have the nuclear launch codes. The point again is that when the apparatus surrounding the secrecy takes over so many things and employs millions of people who go in and out of buildings related to the appartus and work on endless "systems" related to the apparatus, there can't possibly be systems in place that effectively protect secrecy well. There are too many possible backdoors. It just takes one idiot, one person carelessly leaving something lying around where it shouldn't be. ... and millions of people who can be the weak link.
     
  2. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member

    ... which is why "Insider threat" is one of the security trainings you'll take most often when you hold a clearance. People are the weakness.

    Nevertheless: I think you're underestimating the grounds government goes to to protect controlled information. ... and its only gotten easier in the digital age, because of non-repudiation associated with digital storage. If one were to go hit Control-P on a pile of controlled documents, you're going to raise suspicion.
     
  3. garrow

    garrow Well-Known Member

    All I know about classified info is that mentally unstable, greedy, traitorous ex-presidents should be able to keep as much of it as they want.
     
    matt_garth, dixiehack and Justin_Rice like this.
  4. Justin_Rice

    Justin_Rice Well-Known Member

    It wasn't classified. He declassified in his mind.
     
    garrow likes this.
  5. Driftwood

    Driftwood Well-Known Member

    My divulging the classified info I personally had access to is moot. I had clearances at the highest level for the U.S. Navy and NATO.
    One of the pieces of gear I worked on would show me the precise location and course of any NATO ship at sea at a given time.
    If a ship is still at the exact same spot in the ocean as it was in 1989, my guess is it's actually at the bottom of the ocean!
     
    maumann and Justin_Rice like this.
  6. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

  7. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    I’ve told this story here before.
    My uncle was captain of two nuclear subs during his post-Annapolis career (he was literally in the first nuke class and was chosen by Rickover. Probably cause he grew up near BTE’s Oak Ridge).
    One day, during the height of the Cold War, he was looking through his periscope at the Russian ship that was tracking his sub. The ship was in terrible condition, and the sailors aboard looked like hippie amateurs.
    So, he decided to spring a surprise on them. He surfaced his boat. He had his commanding officers join him on the tower outside in clear view of the Russian ship. He then took the microphone and turned turn on the PA. “attention crew of the (his boat). Please see your adversaries. Please notice the poor condition of their ship and crew. Especially in comparison to the US Navy…” At which point alarms started sounding on the Russian ship, and the sailors all scurried out of view. Clearly someone was quickly translating what my uncle was saying about them.
    He loved telling that story and usually prefaced it by saying he’d been cleared to tell it.
     
    Neutral Corner, maumann and Driftwood like this.
  8. TrooperBari

    TrooperBari Well-Known Member

    I'm beginning to think Russia might be taking in as much garbage about the US and the West as it is spewing garbage towards the US and the West. Who knew being Very Online would be bad for military readiness?

     
  9. Driftwood

    Driftwood Well-Known Member

    If you ever look at pictures of Soviet warships, they look impressive and armed to the teeth. That's because they didn't have people onboard to fix anything. Every system they had needed to be redundant, and most of that was broken much of the time, too.
     
    Batman and Justin_Rice like this.
  10. maumann

    maumann Well-Known Member

    During our golf game this week, my submariner buddy said there was a device on board the USS Mariano Vallejo that could calculate the relative speed of an object using only lat, long and heading. He's either getting senile or there's math I'm missing, because I would think you'd need an elapsed time element as well (or a second set of observations). Maybe that's why it's classified!
     
  11. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    They must have at least two points of reference so they can at the very least know heading so they can probably get an idea of speed from that (otherwise how do they know every direction they’re moving and not staying still?). If that isn’t it, there’s some voodoo going on I’ll never understand.
     
    maumann likes this.
  12. maumann

    maumann Well-Known Member

    That makes sense. However, "heading" doesn't always correspond with course. According to the Wiki on navigation, " TVMDC is a mnemonic initialism for true heading, variation, magnetic heading, deviation, compass heading."

    So my skipper buddy may be talking about any of those in a mysterious way. I'm just Gilligan in this conversation.
     
    Spartan Squad likes this.
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