UPDATE: Uh-oh! CMU, EMU and now WMU in big trouble thanks to Rich Rod!

mustangj17 · Sep 1, 2009

Re: Uh-oh! Cental Michigan, or some other smaller football program, in trouble

slappy4428 said:

Colton said:

As an Ohio State fanboi looser here, I sure hope things work out for RichRod so he can remain exactly where he is.

Please.
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Actually, I would think you wouldn't.
The rivalry is at its best when both teams are up. Even during the braindead years of John Cooper, the Buckeyes didn't suck in general -- just against Michigan.
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Those were simpler times.

PopeDirkBenedict · Sep 1, 2009

Re: Uh-oh! Cental Michigan, or some other smaller football program, in trouble

Colton said:

As an Ohio State fanboi looser here, I sure hope things work out for RichRod so he can remain exactly where he is.

Please.
Click to expand...

Every Ohio State fan I know wants Michigan to be 0-10 and the worst team in the history of organized sports when they meet for The Game.

Every Michigan fan I know secretly wants Ohio State to be 10-0 and the top team in the country going into the game so Michigan can beat them and ruin the season.

Johnny Dangerously · Sep 1, 2009

Re: Uh-oh! Cental Michigan, or some other smaller football program, in trouble

zagoshe said:

Johnny Dangerously said:

zag says it is not a story, and he compared it to similar happenings in RR's first year at W.Va. We know about that why? Because it was a story. This is a story. Let readers interpret it as they choose. It is a story.
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Never said it wasn't a story. I said it was shodddy reporting from the standpoint that the only people I've seen on the record are a disgruntled former player who has said at least five times "I'll tell the NCAA everything they want to know...." -- no he doesn't have an agenda -- and two guys who were put on the podium yesterday during the weekly news conference -- yeah, they had no incentive to back their coach.

The problem with this story is that the "reporting" consisted of talking to a few players who may or may not have an agenda -- and since we don't know who they are, we don't know if they are credible or whiners.
Click to expand...

I was talking about what you said below, when you said "Again that is not a story."

zagoshe said:

Den1983 said:

The story here, as others have said, is not that Michigan went over the 20 hours. That's ho-hum; every program does it. The story is the fact that players - starters, reportedly, - have willingly outed the program.

Whatever it is, RichRod has rubbed people the wrong way in such a short time in Ann Arbor. Not sure he could have asked for a worse start.
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Again that is not a story because it is just more of the same -- the same thing happened when he went to WVU. He had like 28 players leave his first year. He was reprimanded by the college for using bad language. He had a few players whine on their way out about how tough his practices were.

And by the middle of year 2 he had weeded out all of the pussies.

That is the same thing going on here -- Lloyd Carr's problem was he was running soft practices and recruiting soft kids and Michigan was drifting into mediocrity.

This all goes away if Michigan is 9-3 or even a good 8-4 at the end of the year.
Click to expand...

You were saying it's not a story to say players willingly outed the program. Then, you cited what happened several years ago at W.Va. You only knew about that because when it happened, it was a story. I was pointing out your inherent hypocrisy. You want information, a story, when it suits your purpose, but not when it doesn't.

And of course, in light of overnight developments, the legitimacy of the overall story and the way it was put together is another matter.

mustangj17 · Sep 1, 2009

Re: Uh-oh! Cental Michigan, or some other smaller football program, in trouble

PopeDirkBenedict said:

Colton said:

As an Ohio State fanboi looser here, I sure hope things work out for RichRod so he can remain exactly where he is.

Please.
Click to expand...

Every Ohio State fan I know wants Michigan to be 0-10 and the worst team in the history of organized sports when they meet for The Game.

Every Michigan fan I know secretly wants Ohio State to be 10-0 and the top team in the country going into the game so Michigan can beat them and ruin the season.
Click to expand...

It's not a secret. And many of us root for them in bowl games as well because it makes the Big Ten look good.
MSU and even ND, not so much.

Stoney · Sep 1, 2009

Re: Uh-oh! Cental Michigan, or some other smaller football program, in trouble

Brian Cook said:

a writer who just launched a broadside at Rodriguez about the Feagin dismissal without bothering to call Feagin's high school coach or check his high school record (two traffic tickets and a dropped misdemeanor)
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What is the relevance of Feagin's two traffic tickets in high school? That didn't seem to bother Michigan or Rodriguez when they recruited and played him in 08, but now it suddenly becomes pertinent the moment he leaves the team in 09?

If Feagin supposedly had all these high school red flags, then perhaps a program that claims to be "different" shouldn't have recruited him in the first place. Michigan forfeited it's right to bitch about his high school misconduct the moment they offered him a scholarship.

WaylonJennings · Sep 1, 2009

Re: Uh-oh! Cental Michigan, or some other smaller football program, in trouble

Two traffic tickets in high school!
Call the National Guard!

zagoshe · Sep 1, 2009

Re: Uh-oh! Cental Michigan, or some other smaller football program, in trouble

Johnny Dangerously said:

zagoshe said:

Johnny Dangerously said:

zag says it is not a story, and he compared it to similar happenings in RR's first year at W.Va. We know about that why? Because it was a story. This is a story. Let readers interpret it as they choose. It is a story.
Click to expand...

Never said it wasn't a story. I said it was shodddy reporting from the standpoint that the only people I've seen on the record are a disgruntled former player who has said at least five times "I'll tell the NCAA everything they want to know...." -- no he doesn't have an agenda -- and two guys who were put on the podium yesterday during the weekly news conference -- yeah, they had no incentive to back their coach.

The problem with this story is that the "reporting" consisted of talking to a few players who may or may not have an agenda -- and since we don't know who they are, we don't know if they are credible or whiners.
Click to expand...

I was talking about what you said below, when you said "Again that is not a story."

zagoshe said:

Den1983 said:

The story here, as others have said, is not that Michigan went over the 20 hours. That's ho-hum; every program does it. The story is the fact that players - starters, reportedly, - have willingly outed the program.

Whatever it is, RichRod has rubbed people the wrong way in such a short time in Ann Arbor. Not sure he could have asked for a worse start.
Click to expand...

Again that is not a story because it is just more of the same -- the same thing happened when he went to WVU. He had like 28 players leave his first year. He was reprimanded by the college for using bad language. He had a few players whine on their way out about how tough his practices were.

And by the middle of year 2 he had weeded out all of the pussies.

That is the same thing going on here -- Lloyd Carr's problem was he was running soft practices and recruiting soft kids and Michigan was drifting into mediocrity.

This all goes away if Michigan is 9-3 or even a good 8-4 at the end of the year.
Click to expand...

You were saying it's not a story to say players willingly outed the program. Then, you cited what happened several years ago at W.Va. You only knew about that because when it happened, it was a story. I was pointing out your inherent hypocrisy. You want information, a story, when it suits your purpose, but not when it doesn't.

And of course, in light of overnight developments, the legitimacy of the overall story and the way it was put together is another matter.
Click to expand...

No, I was saying the fact that Rich Rodriguez has rubbed people the wrong way in Ann Arbor is not a story because he rubs people the wrong way, that is just the way he is, similar to Saban and a lot of other successful coaches.

outofplace · Sep 1, 2009

Re: Uh-oh! Cental Michigan, or some other smaller football program, in trouble

mustangj17 said:

Den1983 said:

The story here, as others have said, is not that Michigan went over the 20 hours. That's ho-hum; every program does it. The story is the fact that players - starters, reportedly, - have willingly outed the program.

Whatever it is, RichRod has rubbed people the wrong way in such a short time in Ann Arbor. Not sure he could have asked for a worse start.
Click to expand...

Two of those "reported starters" have come out and said their words were twisted.

Brian Cook said:

I'm not sure why I'm even bothering with this since I'll no doubt just get called a "fanboi" by people slavishly fanboi-ing a writer who just launched a broadside at Rodriguez about the Feagin dismissal without bothering to call Feagin's high school coach or check his high school record (two traffic tickets and a dropped misdemeanor), but this is a quote from one of the freshmen quoted in the story:
http://mgoblog.com/content/jihad-second-journalism-type-substance

"I told them I lift weight at 8 until 10:30, go to class, and come back and work with [veteran player]. [Then] we go watch film. They turn it all around."

One of the people who writes for me gathered that quote. All of those activities are, or can be classified voluntary by the NCAA as long as no one takes attendance. And yet a version of that course of events was used as evidence Michigan had committed NCAA violations. That is not journalism. I don't know what it is.

The dumb, uncritical acceptance of the content of the report here is symptomatic of the reasons people are abandoning newspapers en masse. Critical thinking is not a requirement at newspapers, and that's not good enough anymore.
Click to expand...

And Brian, you are a fanboi, but your site has a lot of good material. I'm a fan boi too, I just don't have a cool blog to go along with it.
Click to expand...

Am I understanding correctly that two current Michigan players made these statements, then backed off after the story ran?

outofplace · Sep 1, 2009

Re: Uh-oh! Cental Michigan, or some other smaller football program, in trouble

zagoshe said:

Johnny Dangerously said:

zagoshe said:

Johnny Dangerously said:

zag says it is not a story, and he compared it to similar happenings in RR's first year at W.Va. We know about that why? Because it was a story. This is a story. Let readers interpret it as they choose. It is a story.
Click to expand...

Never said it wasn't a story. I said it was shodddy reporting from the standpoint that the only people I've seen on the record are a disgruntled former player who has said at least five times "I'll tell the NCAA everything they want to know...." -- no he doesn't have an agenda -- and two guys who were put on the podium yesterday during the weekly news conference -- yeah, they had no incentive to back their coach.

The problem with this story is that the "reporting" consisted of talking to a few players who may or may not have an agenda -- and since we don't know who they are, we don't know if they are credible or whiners.
Click to expand...

I was talking about what you said below, when you said "Again that is not a story."

zagoshe said:

Den1983 said:

The story here, as others have said, is not that Michigan went over the 20 hours. That's ho-hum; every program does it. The story is the fact that players - starters, reportedly, - have willingly outed the program.

Whatever it is, RichRod has rubbed people the wrong way in such a short time in Ann Arbor. Not sure he could have asked for a worse start.
Click to expand...

Again that is not a story because it is just more of the same -- the same thing happened when he went to WVU. He had like 28 players leave his first year. He was reprimanded by the college for using bad language. He had a few players whine on their way out about how tough his practices were.

And by the middle of year 2 he had weeded out all of the pussies.

That is the same thing going on here -- Lloyd Carr's problem was he was running soft practices and recruiting soft kids and Michigan was drifting into mediocrity.

This all goes away if Michigan is 9-3 or even a good 8-4 at the end of the year.
Click to expand...

You were saying it's not a story to say players willingly outed the program. Then, you cited what happened several years ago at W.Va. You only knew about that because when it happened, it was a story. I was pointing out your inherent hypocrisy. You want information, a story, when it suits your purpose, but not when it doesn't.

And of course, in light of overnight developments, the legitimacy of the overall story and the way it was put together is another matter.
Click to expand...

No, I was saying the fact that Rich Rodriguez has rubbed people the wrong way in Ann Arbor is not a story because he rubs people the wrong way, that is just the way he is, similar to Saban and a lot of other successful coaches.
Click to expand...

Saban is a great comparison. Rodriguez is just as much of a lying dirtbag as Saban.

Remember how the news of Rodriguez leaving West Virginia for Michigan broke. It was a recruit. He started calling the players he had been recruiting for West Virginia and telling them to follow him to Michigan before he even told anybody at West Virginia he was leaving. Then he did other fun stuff like destroying team files and such.

zagoshe · Sep 1, 2009

Re: Uh-oh! Cental Michigan, or some other smaller football program, in trouble

outofplace said:

Saban is a great comparison. Rodriguez is just as much of a lying dirtbag as
Saban.

Remember how the news of Rodriguez leaving West Virginia for Michigan broke. It was a recruit. He started calling the players he had been recruiting for West Virginia and telling them to follow him to Michigan before he even told anybody at West Virginia he was leaving. Then he did other fun stuff like destroying team files and such.
Click to expand...

Believe me OOP -- I agree with (God I never thought I'd utter those words) -- Rich Rodriguez is a self-serving asshole, a liar and not a very credible person. I am in no way trying to defend him, other than to say I have an issue with the way this story came about and the fact that the people who are "sources" all seem to be disgruntled former employees or disgruntled current employees and none will go on the record.

mustangj17 · Sep 1, 2009

Re: Uh-oh! Cental Michigan, or some other smaller football program, in trouble

outofplace said:

mustangj17 said:

Den1983 said:

The story here, as others have said, is not that Michigan went over the 20 hours. That's ho-hum; every program does it. The story is the fact that players - starters, reportedly, - have willingly outed the program.

Whatever it is, RichRod has rubbed people the wrong way in such a short time in Ann Arbor. Not sure he could have asked for a worse start.
Click to expand...

Two of those "reported starters" have come out and said their words were twisted.

Brian Cook said:

I'm not sure why I'm even bothering with this since I'll no doubt just get called a "fanboi" by people slavishly fanboi-ing a writer who just launched a broadside at Rodriguez about the Feagin dismissal without bothering to call Feagin's high school coach or check his high school record (two traffic tickets and a dropped misdemeanor), but this is a quote from one of the freshmen quoted in the story:
http://mgoblog.com/content/jihad-second-journalism-type-substance

"I told them I lift weight at 8 until 10:30, go to class, and come back and work with [veteran player]. [Then] we go watch film. They turn it all around."

One of the people who writes for me gathered that quote. All of those activities are, or can be classified voluntary by the NCAA as long as no one takes attendance. And yet a version of that course of events was used as evidence Michigan had committed NCAA violations. That is not journalism. I don't know what it is.

The dumb, uncritical acceptance of the content of the report here is symptomatic of the reasons people are abandoning newspapers en masse. Critical thinking is not a requirement at newspapers, and that's not good enough anymore.
Click to expand...

And Brian, you are a fanboi, but your site has a lot of good material. I'm a fan boi too, I just don't have a cool blog to go along with it.
Click to expand...

Am I understanding correctly that two current Michigan players made these statements, then backed off after the story ran?
Click to expand...

From what I'm understanding two players who were interviewed but left anonymous said they had their words misconstrued or were confused.

Freshman WR Je'Ron stokes said his "words were twisted," to another writer. His Dad also made comments about how his son never said anything about mandatory 12 hour work days and so on.

Freshman Brandin Hawthorne came out and said he was confused and when he talked 11-12 hour Sunday workdays was referring to summer workouts. He couldn't have been talking about in-season workouts because he is a TRUE freshman. He wasn't on the team last year.

The first in-season Sunday was this week, story was already written. There's no 4-hour rules for summer practices.

mustangj17 · Sep 1, 2009

Re: Uh-oh! Cental Michigan, or some other smaller football program, in trouble

Freep says RichRod defaults on $3.9 million dollar loan

http://www.freep.com/article/20090901/NEWS06/90901033/1318/Rodriguez-owes--3.9M-on-defaulted-loan--suit-alleges

Detnews takes a different angle: says RichRod is victim of ponzi scheme (in the first graf)

http://detnews.com/article/20090901/SPORTS0201/909010410/Rich-Rodriguez-sued--advisor-says-coach-is-victim-of-Ponzi-scheme

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UPDATE: Uh-oh! CMU, EMU and now WMU in big trouble thanks to Rich Rod!

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UPDATE: Uh-oh! CMU, EMU and now WMU in big trouble thanks to Rich Rod!

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