'Updated' - SF Chron Guys and Ellerman's Plea: Damning Dates, Revisited-*Videos*

Re: 'Updated' - SF Chron Guys and Ellerman's Plea: Damning Dates, Revisited-*Vid

On this subject, at this time, I do lack this skill. I freely admit that.

And believe me, it sucks.

(criticism taken, handled, and accepted, for those keeping score at home)

It's kind of like John Holmes not being able to get it up. Now I'm not journalism's John Holmes, so to speak, but as someone who makes a living writing, I'm feeling pretty 'summary impotent' right now.

That's because I'm still immersed in the research. You can't summarize something that you don't fully have mapped out yet. You know, Bump, that'd be kind of like me asking you to summarizing a prep football game before the 4th quarter happened.

Hope that helps you understand my quandry.

I know enough to know how explosive this is, but I'm seeking out a bit more info. Don't worry, I'll keep you posted.

 

Re: 'Updated' - SF Chron Guys and Ellerman's Plea: Damning Dates, Revisited-*Vid

Boom -- Heroes?
Within the profession, to me, W&B qualify. (And, no, they didn't get any Grand Jury material. They talked on their own to people who testified before the first Watergate GJ, as anyone has a perfect legal right to do.) They broke their stories with a lot of luck and an incredible amount of shoe leather. Which is ironic, given what a stenographer Woodward has become.
Felt? Not so much. Did the right thing for the wrong reasons.
"Heroes" is a pretty baggy word, though.
And Rok, the answer I've been waiting for apparently is "I don't have it yet, but I already posted it back there." There is a coherence problem here, I believe.
Thank you.

 

Re: 'Updated' - SF Chron Guys and Ellerman's Plea: Damning Dates, Revisited-*Vid

If you read the last post, read it again, b/c I just had to update it. This post will be deleted, Mission Impossible-style, in 15 minutes or less.

 

A good catch, one I actually made before you did, FB. Imagine that?

Please re-read my post. But I appreciate your skill, and that's not sarcastic. I also appreciate BYH's skill at ripping people, though many don't like the results (including me, oftentimes)

 

Re: 'Updated' - SF Chron Guys and Ellerman's Plea: Damning Dates, Revisited-*Vid

Matching this:

"What is about to explode?" is very legitimate, and you will have your answer. I'm sorry I don't work on your timetable, Fenian. I'm still trying to get my hands around the scope of this one (our research), and that takes precedence over answering your question. If you go back and look at what I've already said, you should be able to find your answer, multiple times. I don't have time today to serve as a reading comprehension tutor."

...up with this...

That's because I'm still immersed in the research. You can't summarize something that you don't fully have mapped out yet. You know, Bump, that'd be kind of like me asking you to summarizing a prep football game before the 4th quarter happened.
Hope that helps you understand my quandry. Smiley
I know enough to know how explosive this is, but I'm seeking out a bit more info. Don't worry, I'll keep you posted.

..takes considerable work, is all I'm saying.
I will wait to see what develops. Hell, it could be a great story.

 

Rok:

See, I think it's funny that you edited your initial, gracious response to make it longer. You're consistent. I'll give you that.

Here's the deal: I get the significance of what you've highlighted so far, I have more than a passing interest in how this topic unwinds, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you turn. So please understand when I tell you that the screeds are more than a little silly, and aren't doing much for your case against your detractors here. On the other hand, if you've truly got a winning story on your hands and you can find someone to pay you by the word, you'll never have to work again.

(And I'll assume that your prep football comment was an off-hand example and not, say, some sort of weaksauce attempt to divine my station in this business. There's been enough thin-skinnedness on this thread.)

In summation: Stop wasting our time with the verbal jousting and produce something.

 

FB, BW - Fair enough.

 

And for what it's worth, I don't begrudge anyone anything. I'm not a grudge holder. Just not my style.

I'm not big on shots at my family - particularly patently false ones - and I'm perfectly capable of being absurdly thin-skinned, far more than many.

But I'm going to take your guys' advice and get back to work.

FB - I've always admired your intellect, especially when it
comes to politics, although I imagine JDV, Boom and
others wouldn't say the same.

BW - It's nice to hear someone say they understand what
we've been talking about. That's heartening.

I will say this, however. Some of this defies a quick summary,
whether it's the legalese or just the accumulation of the dates involved, which is why I alluded to a 'BALCO fatigue' earlier in the thread.

Still, I can summarize it better than I have, no question.

BW - The 'prep school summary' comment was a dick move by me. Sorry. If you've seen many of my posts on here, you'll see that I don't mind being called on my junk.

Peace, fellas. And all the rest.

 

Re: 'Updated' - SF Chron Guys and Ellerman's Plea: Damning Dates, Revisited-*Vid

I am truly sorry but until tonight I had not read the entire contents of this thread. After doing so you have to wonder how some one can not understand the ramifications of what has happened here. Clearly these writers violated the laws of the Grand Juries for profit. They have forever damaged the evidence any further grand juries can collect in regard to PEH drugs or supplements. Given these leaks it will be even less likely that we can ever have a reasoned approach to PEH drugs or supplements. Why would a player give information on his use of PEH drugs or supplements knowing that his Grand Jury testimony will be leaked and his testimony will be used for profit. This will only further increase the divide between athletes and journalist, ultimately hurting the fans. If we would not have had these violations the Grand Jury could have gathered more important information on the scope of the problem and what involvement MLB had in fostering these problems. Now we may never gain a full knowledge of what has happened and will be continually stone walled. This leak of information has not only hurt the current health and integrity of the players, owners and journalist but will continue to damage them in the near future.

 

Good to see that you are coming around from your original position on Felt. As far as W&B knowing what we know now puts a different light on their work.

The information they obtained was given by the number 2 person in the FBI. This fact alone if it came out sooner would have tainted every Watergate legal case that was out there.

It may have been asked at somepoint but I am wondering if W & B ever thought there was anything possibly wrong with how they were getting their information.

 

Boom --
Don't equate Felt's actions with an ongoing leak of grand jury proceedings. His information came from his own knowledge, not of an ongoing investigation, but of the ongoing cover-up that prevented that investigation from going where it should have. Also, Felt's role was that of confirmation, not independent information.