UVA and the alleged frat rape - Rolling Stone backpedals

Re: Rolling Stone on rape at UVA

I wonder how quickly this is going to play out. The fraternity hasn't issued a denial yet, just a response about how it is taking the story seriously. That is the appropriate action at this time, I think, but eventually, you would think that they are going to defend themselves in some way.

I wonder if the identify of the woman, "Jackie," is common knowledge at UVa? If she's lying, or exaggerating, she's definitely in deep now.

There are some interesting thoughts on this fan site thread (not a UVa fan site) about why some doubt the details in the story:

http://northcarolina.scout.com/forums/1414-zigga-zoomba-lounge/13383263-uva-rape-story-in-rolling-stone?s=78

Something interesting on that thread - if it is to be believed - is that the fraternity in the Rolling Stone article is apparently not one that fits the rich, entitled asshole stereotype, and that those kind of guys actually turn their nose at this house. That doesn't mean that there would not be rapists at this house, of course. And it's also probably the case that men considered middle class types at UVa are probably still pretty well-off.

 

Re: Rolling Stone on rape at UVA

I can confirm that. The article was right that the house is in an absolute primo location, which isn't nothing. But if you go to UVA and your dad is a CEO or a political appointee - if you went to Woodberry or Episcopal or St. Chris - you're pledging Elmo or the Hall, not Phi Psi.

 

Re: Rolling Stone on rape at UVA

I have very little doubt this woman was raped, and I hope these frat guys pay dearly for this crime.

I also believe there are details in beginning of this piece that are embellished. At the very least, there is absolutely no way to fact check them beyond her hazy memory of the event, and yet they are treated as fact. And the shitty thing is, if it does turn out that some of the details have been exaggerated or embellished, it will allow people to brush aside all the true things in the story. In trying to help this woman tell her story, Rolling Stone will have done her a great disservice by trying to craft a narrative. Really hope I'm wrong, but just don't know that I would feel comfortable as an editor signing off on a piece the way it's written.

 

Re: Rolling Stone on rape at UVA

You don't know if you'd sign off on it, and I respect that. But I know whether I would or not - I absolutely wouldn't.

It would not surprise me if she was not raped. I know that's taboo, but almost every last detail of that story seems made up, and if every last detail seems made up, I don't have any reason to believe the core allegation, either.

Think about all of the things that had to happen here, to one person:

A boy groomed her for weeks, obscuring that he was a monster.

And ...

She didn't drink or wear provocative clothing. (By writing this, by the way, Erdely feeds into the idea that rape victims are otherwise to blame for their own rape.)

And ...

The boy from above lured her upstairs at a party.

And ...

Someone was waiting to attack her.

And ...

Someone called her "it."

And ...

Seven people took turns raping her for three hours.

And ...
This included raping her with a bottle.

And ...

This was all planned in advance.

And ...

Her friends worried they wouldn't get into parties after this.

And ...

Her other friends worried they wouldn't get into fraternities.

And ...
Another friend told her she should have just enjoyed it.

This story did not happen. I am 99.9 percent certain of it.

 

Re: Rolling Stone on rape at UVA

I am not sure exactly which of those details is supposed to be so difficult to believe.

 

Re: Rolling Stone on rape at UVA

Entirely plausible.

Entirely plausible.

Entirely plausible.

Entirely plausible.

Entirely plausible.

Entirely plausible.

Entirely plausible.

Entirely plausible.

This is where it falls apart for me, mainly with the friend who wanted to take her to the hospital but was allegedly dissuaded by the "we won't be popular anymore" argument.

That's where I'd flag the story if I was the editor, but those question marks don't scream "the entire story is made up." They scream "the writer is interjecting her own bias into the story."

 

Re: Rolling Stone on rape at UVA

The hard part here is just discussing this, journalistically, can easily be cast like we're trying to excuse all rapists, or that we're trying to shame sexual assault survivors or we don't think this is a problem on campuses. All not true. As the father or two girls, this shit terrifies me. But I just don't buy this story either, and I don't think Rolling Stone should so blindly sign off on it in the name of advocacy journalism. What if this woman got very, very drunk at a party, started fooling around with a guy, blacked out, and was raped by a group of guys who thought 'Oh, she's into it?" Still absolutely rape. Still should be prosecuted. Still horrible. But not a Game of Thrones-style scene where she walks into a room and is violently attacked by bad guys, like they're horror-movie monsters. Again, by playing this up where it's some scene of pure evil -- based, I guess solely on her recollection of the event -- you're really playing with fire if it all falls apart. Because what if this story turns out to be bogus? Every fraternity brother on UVA's campus is going to say "See? It's all lies when women cry rape" when I have no doubt UVA has a serious sexual assault problem.

Not a single "allegedly" in the opening scene? Do I read that right?

 

Re: Rolling Stone on rape at UVA

Well, it only takes one of those details to be false for "this story" (in its entirety) to have not happened. But even if this story (in its entirety) didn't happen, that doesn't necessarily mean that a young woman wasn't gang-raped in a frat house at UVA.

 

Re: Rolling Stone on rape at UVA

Not even a "Jackie says" until a few hundred words in. And then she abandons it again.

 

Re: Rolling Stone on rape at UVA

Cre, you're as strict as anyone on here, journalistically, about stuff like quoting people precisely and accurately. Which I respect. So I'm asking, as an editor, if you'd let something go in a narrative, based on "plausible." I know this is a difficult story to report, to write, and to publish, and an important story. But how does a magazine just say "Well, her account is good enough to sign off on as fact" based on what seems like no other sources?

What is lost in the story by saying "She says..." or "That's when Jackie says she remembers…"

 

Re: Rolling Stone on rape at UVA

Sipping from a plastic cup, Jackie grimaced, then discreetly spilled her spiked punch onto the sludgy fraternity-house floor. The University of Virginia freshman wasn't a drinker, but she didn't want to seem like a goody-goody at her very first frat party – and she especially wanted to impress her date, the handsome Phi Kappa Psi brother who'd brought her here. Jackie was sober but giddy with discovery as she looked around the room crammed with rowdy strangers guzzling beer and dancing to loud music. She smiled at her date, whom we'll call Drew, a good-looking junior – or in UVA parlance, a third-year – and he smiled enticingly back.

"Want to go upstairs, where it's quieter?" Drew shouted into her ear, and Jackie's heart quickened. She took his hand as he threaded them out of the crowded room and up a staircase.

Four weeks into UVA's 2012 school year, 18-year-old Jackie was crushing it at college. A chatty, straight-A achiever from a rural Virginia town, she'd initially been intimidated by UVA's aura of preppy success, where throngs of toned, tanned and overwhelmingly blond students fanned across a landscape of neoclassical brick buildings, hurrying to classes, clubs, sports, internships, part-time jobs, volunteer work and parties; Jackie's orientation leader had warned her that UVA students' schedules were so packed that "no one has time to date – people just hook up." But despite her reservations, Jackie had flung herself into campus life, attending events, joining clubs, making friends and, now, being asked on an actual date. She and Drew had met while working lifeguard shifts together at the university pool, and Jackie had been floored by Drew's invitation to dinner, followed by a "date function" at his fraternity, Phi Kappa Psi. The "upper tier" frat had a reputation of tremendous wealth, and its imposingly large house overlooked a vast manicured field, giving "Phi Psi" the undisputed best real estate along UVA's fraternity row known as Rugby Road.

Jackie had taken three hours getting ready, straightening her long, dark, wavy hair. She'd congratulated herself on her choice of a tasteful red dress with a high neckline. Now, climbing the frat-house stairs with Drew, Jackie felt excited. Drew ushered Jackie into a bedroom, shutting the door behind them. The room was pitch-black inside. Jackie blindly turned toward Drew, uttering his name. At that same moment, she says, she detected movement in the room – and felt someone bump into her. Jackie began to scream.

"Shut up," she heard a man's voice say as a body barreled into her, tripping her backward and sending them both crashing through a low glass table. There was a heavy person on top of her, spreading open her thighs, and another person kneeling on her hair, hands pinning down her arms, sharp shards digging into her back, and excited male voices rising all around her. When yet another hand clamped over her mouth, Jackie bit it, and the hand became a fist that punched her in the face. The men surrounding her began to laugh. For a hopeful moment Jackie wondered if this wasn't some collegiate prank. Perhaps at any second someone would flick on the lights and they'd return to the party.

"Grab its motherfucking leg," she heard a voice say. And that's when Jackie knew she was going to be raped.

She remembers every moment of the next three hours of agony, during which, she says, seven men took turns raping her, while two more – her date, Drew, and another man – gave instruction and encouragement. She remembers how the spectators swigged beers, and how they called each other nicknames like Armpit and Blanket. She remembers the men's heft and their sour reek of alcohol mixed with the pungency of marijuana. Most of all, Jackie remembers the pain and the pounding that went on and on.

As the last man sank onto her, Jackie was startled to recognize him: He attended her tiny anthropology discussion group. He looked like he was going to cry or puke as he told the crowd he couldn't get it up. "Pussy!" the other men jeered. "What, she's not hot enough for you?" Then they egged him on: "Don't you want to be a brother?" "We all had to do it, so you do, too." Someone handed her classmate a beer bottle. Jackie stared at the young man, silently begging him not to go through with it. And as he shoved the bottle into her, Jackie fell into a stupor, mentally untethering from the brutal tableau, her mind leaving behind the bleeding body under assault on the floor.

When Jackie came to, she was alone. It was after 3 a.m. She painfully rose from the floor and ran shoeless from the room. She emerged to discover the Phi Psi party still surreally under way, but if anyone noticed the barefoot, disheveled girl hurrying down a side staircase, face beaten, dress spattered with blood, they said nothing. Disoriented, Jackie burst out a side door, realized she was lost, and dialed a friend, screaming, "Something bad happened. I need you to come and find me!" Minutes later, her three best friends on campus – two boys and a girl (whose names are changed) – arrived to find Jackie on a nearby street corner, shaking. "What did they do to you? What did they make you do?" Jackie recalls her friend Randall demanding. Jackie shook her head and began to cry. The group looked at one another in a panic. They all knew about Jackie's date; the Phi Kappa Psi house loomed behind them. "We have to get her to the hospital," Randall said.

Their other two friends, however, weren't convinced. "Is that such a good idea?" she recalls Cindy asking. "Her reputation will be shot for the next four years." Andy seconded the opinion, adding that since he and Randall both planned to rush fraternities, they ought to think this through. The three friends launched into a heated discussion about the social price of reporting Jackie's rape, while Jackie stood beside them, mute in her bloody dress, wishing only to go back to her dorm room and fall into a deep, forgetful sleep. Detached, Jackie listened as Cindy prevailed over the group: "She's gonna be the girl who cried 'rape,' and we'll never be allowed into any frat party again."

 

Re: Rolling Stone on rape at UVA

Stopped reading it after a thousand words or so. Was there any follow-up to all the blood on her neck and what-not from being slammed through the glass table?