UVA and the alleged frat rape - Rolling Stone backpedals

MisterCreosote · Dec 12, 2014

So, DD, you're basically agreeing with the point that Erdely was using campus rape as a vehicle for smearing rich, white frat bros? She'd have to be, the way you describe it. Anyone who feels passionate about the actual issue of rape on college campuses would never do what you suggest Erdely did. You'd also have to assume that "liberal bias" equals "bias against white people," which is Fox News, tinfoil hat nonsense.

Double Down said:

And this and the Duke lax case are prime examples of very biased liberal assumptions leading to unfair assumptions about an entire group of people.
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Sorry, but this can be laid squarely at the feet of Erdely and RS's shitty fact-checking standards.

The Duke lacrosse case can be laid almost all at the feet of an overzealous, attention-whore prosecutor and a handful of gullible journalists.

Double Down said:

There are certainly publications that could and perhaps would have written stories about gang rape at black colleges and tries to use that as a starting point for a broader discussion about sexual assault and the serious problem it has become (or always was) on campuses. But RS isn't one of those publications. It doesn't make me a racist to concede that. I think it makes me realistic.
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You know why no one has written that story? Because it doesn't exist. Rape in college fraternities is not a huge issue for black people, because by most accounts binge-drinking and/or plying women with alcohol and/or roofies is not a big issue for black people at colleges, and because black students are found to have, on average, less disposable income for parties and such than white people.

And the number of women on any given campus is much higher than the number of black men.

And, the number of white frat bros is much higher than the number of black frat bros.

The Big Ragu · Dec 12, 2014

YankeeFan said:

LongTimeListener said:

This whole line of argument is really beneath you. Too bad, it's been a great thread, but now you're turning into asshole mode trying to get everyone to accept as fact something that exists as a hypothetical only in your head.

There is absolutely no truth in what you're saying. There is no falsehood either, because it's just your opinion no matter how wacky it is, but there is no basis whatsoever in it and you want everyone to accept as fact that a black fraternity facing these charges would be treated differently.

It's beneath you, it really is.
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Bullshit.

I don't even know how/why what I have said could remotely be viewed as controversial.

Is it in question that Rolling Stone is a left-wing publication with a political agenda? Is there any doubt that what drew them to this story -- even to assigning Erdely to investigate the issue -- was that it was an opportunity to advance a political agenda?

And, that's why Erdely shopped around for a story that "felt right", isn't it?

And, it felt right because it was a white, elite fraternity, steeped in Southern culture. If a rape victim advocate had turned her on to different story, where the bad guys were African-American, do you really think that story would have "felt right" to Erdely? Do you think that would have been the story Erdely pursued, and that Rolling Stone would have published with no backing evidence, no sworn statements, not police/court records, no confirmation from her friends, and with no attempt to reach out to the accused?

It seems like you, and others, are uncomfortable answering this hypothetical. Why?

Why is not worth discussing? Because I said the villains in my hypothetical were African-American? Really? Even in a hypothetical, that makes you too squeamish?

We really are a nation of cowards in regards to race.

OK, how about if the villains are the Young Democrats, or the Editorial Staff of the campus newspaper, or the campus chapter of Green Peace, or any other bastion of liberals?

Would those stories have "felt right" to Erdely and Rolling Stone? Would they have met their confirmation bias?

This story -- though untrue -- only worked because of the setting, and because of the race and social status of the accused rapists.
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1) Rolling Stone is no more of a "left wing publication" than Money magazine is a "right wing publication." In its media kit, it bills itself as "the pulse of youth culture." It is trying to be bold and irreverent (like every magazine geared toward music, arts, culture, social issues, etc.), and to write with a point of view that it thinks defines its audience. It is not trying to be an overtly political magazine, though. It's editorial calendar is geared around things like, "Spring music" "fashion" "cars" "college life" "tech."

2) Sarah Erdely may be a crappy journalist, but yeah, long-form writers "shop around" for subjects. They typically aren't advancing the "political agendas" you are obsessed with. They are trying to write interesting stories. Take Sarah Erdely out of it. If you are doing a feature story on a rape on a college campus, you are going to gravitate to the most salacious story about a gang rape you can find. It doesn't mean you are an operative of a political movement. It means you want to write a story that gets attention. In this case, the problem isn't that someone "victim shopped." It's that they did a shitty job of reporting and writing the story. You can "victim shop" and write a story that is 100 percent accurate. In this case, the reporting was miserably bad and inept -- by any magazine's standard -- and the fact-checking was even worse. Nothing was verified.

3) The rest is you masturbating all over the thread again. Did she have a point of view? Sure. Rolling Stone has a point of view. Nearly EVERY magazine that does long-form journalism has a point of view. They have readers and they try to cater to what those readers want to read. It doesn't mean EVERYONE with a point of view has an "agenda" (oooooh, an "agenda!") and therefore prints stuff that isn't true.

PW2 · Dec 12, 2014

The Big Ragu said:

YankeeFan said:

LongTimeListener said:

This whole line of argument is really beneath you. Too bad, it's been a great thread, but now you're turning into asshole mode trying to get everyone to accept as fact something that exists as a hypothetical only in your head.

There is absolutely no truth in what you're saying. There is no falsehood either, because it's just your opinion no matter how wacky it is, but there is no basis whatsoever in it and you want everyone to accept as fact that a black fraternity facing these charges would be treated differently.

It's beneath you, it really is.
Click to expand...

Bullshit.

I don't even know how/why what I have said could remotely be viewed as controversial.

Is it in question that Rolling Stone is a left-wing publication with a political agenda? Is there any doubt that what drew them to this story -- even to assigning Erdely to investigate the issue -- was that it was an opportunity to advance a political agenda?

And, that's why Erdely shopped around for a story that "felt right", isn't it?

And, it felt right because it was a white, elite fraternity, steeped in Southern culture. If a rape victim advocate had turned her on to different story, where the bad guys were African-American, do you really think that story would have "felt right" to Erdely? Do you think that would have been the story Erdely pursued, and that Rolling Stone would have published with no backing evidence, no sworn statements, not police/court records, no confirmation from her friends, and with no attempt to reach out to the accused?

It seems like you, and others, are uncomfortable answering this hypothetical. Why?

Why is not worth discussing? Because I said the villains in my hypothetical were African-American? Really? Even in a hypothetical, that makes you too squeamish?

We really are a nation of cowards in regards to race.

OK, how about if the villains are the Young Democrats, or the Editorial Staff of the campus newspaper, or the campus chapter of Green Peace, or any other bastion of liberals?

Would those stories have "felt right" to Erdely and Rolling Stone? Would they have met their confirmation bias?

This story -- though untrue -- only worked because of the setting, and because of the race and social status of the accused rapists.
Click to expand...

1) Rolling Stone is no more of a "left wing publication" than Money magazine is a "right wing publication." In its media kit, it bills itself as "the pulse of youth culture." It is trying to be bold and irreverent (like every magazine geared toward music, arts, culture, social issues, etc.), and to write with a point of view that it thinks defines its audience. It is not trying to be an overtly political magazine, though.
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This is flat-out incorrect. Rolling Stone is absolutely, proudly, a left-wing, political publication.

Songbird · Dec 12, 2014

It's perverse to chuckle at the thought that these frat bros must recover from accusations of being gang-rapists.

If they squint just right they'll be able to understand the everyday stigma of " _______ while Black" in terms of shoot first, ask questions later.

Doesn't make it right but life's a bitch when politicized assumptions are based on race and class, ain't it?

The Big Ragu · Dec 12, 2014

PW2 said:

This is flat-out incorrect. Rolling Stone is absolutely, proudly, a left-wing, political publication.
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So proud of it that the words "left-wing" and "political publication" aren't anywhere near their media kit.

PW2 · Dec 12, 2014

Songbird said:

It's perverse to chuckle at the thought that these frat bros must recover from accusations of being gang-rapists.

If they squint just right they'll be able to understand the everyday stigma of " _______ while Black" in terms of shoot first, ask questions later.

Doesn't make it right but life's a bitch when politicized assumptions are based on race and class, ain't it?
Click to expand...

Yeah, those frat bros in Charlottesville, Va., sure got what was coming to them for what happened half a continent away in Ferguson, Mo.! Hells, yeah!

jr/shotglass · Dec 12, 2014

MisterCreosote said:

... by most accounts binge-drinking and/or plying women with alcohol and/or roofies is not a big issue for black people at colleges ...
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Cite, please.

doctorquant · Dec 12, 2014

The RS piece had as its target "rape culture," which apparently comprises people with the veneer of propriety and respectability who engage in (or otherwise tolerate or are indifferent to) unspeakably evil acts. Such a piece is going to be most striking if its antagonists, for lack of a better word, can be pegged as members of some particular elite.

Suppose you were interested in writing such an article. Further suppose that across your radar have come reports of the UVA gang rape and another gang rape at some HBC. You have time to pursue (in a professional and ethical manner) only one of these, and you need only one for your piece. Which one are you going to choose? It would be the height of foolishness to pass on the UVA one.

That said, it seems kind of silly to be having a huge argument over a gang rape by a black fraternity that not only didn't happen, it wasn't even reported.

PW2 · Dec 12, 2014

The Big Ragu said:

PW2 said:

This is flat-out incorrect. Rolling Stone is absolutely, proudly, a left-wing, political publication.
Click to expand...

So proud of it that the words "left-wing" and "political publication" aren't anywhere near their media kit.
Click to expand...

doctorquant · Dec 12, 2014

MisterCreosote said:

The Duke lacrosse case can be laid almost all at the feet of an overzealous, attention-whore prosecutor and a handful of gullible journalists.
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Don't forget those ethical giants among the "Group of 88."

Double Down · Dec 12, 2014

Are we talking about "frats" and rape culture or just rape culture? I'm not sure why this must be limited to frats to prove a point.

Here are five African Americans charged just a few weeks ago with a gang rape a William Patterson University.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6257000

MisterCreosote · Dec 12, 2014

PW2 said:

Songbird said:

It's perverse to chuckle at the thought that these frat bros must recover from accusations of being gang-rapists.

If they squint just right they'll be able to understand the everyday stigma of " _______ while Black" in terms of shoot first, ask questions later.

Doesn't make it right but life's a bitch when politicized assumptions are based on race and class, ain't it?
Click to expand...

Yeah, those frat bros in Charlottesville, Va., sure got what was coming to them for what happened half a continent away in Ferguson, Mo.! Hells, yeah!
Click to expand...

Not spending a day in the legal system or even having their names widely revealed must be hell for them.

Meanwhile, in the past it was pretty widely accepted practice in this country to not only accuse, but CONVICT, black people of raping white women without the slightest bit of evidence, or even a victim recanting her story and admitting she made it all up.

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UVA and the alleged frat rape - Rolling Stone backpedals

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UVA and the alleged frat rape - Rolling Stone backpedals

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