What constitutes a "liveable wage"?

well, well said ... (From someone in his late 30's)

 

I don't count pension money in my retirement plans, that's for sure. If I get anything in 20 years, gravy - medication money or something. That said, I empathize for the 50-60 crowd that always assumed they'd get a full pension and planned accordingly, only to have the rug pulled out from under them.

 

Bingo. See my post, above.

 

This is why journalists are the dumbest smart people on earth.

 

The Bottle Rockets, correct?

 

Think about this next time you get on that little plane taking you from Philly to Albany: Regional-jet pilots invest well into five figures into their training AND many have four-year college degrees. Most of them make less than $30K a year the first 2-3 years. And they have the lives of 40-50 people in their hands.

 

And, on the secondary subject of this thread:

I'm real uncomfortable offering unsolicited critiques of what people choose to spend THEIR money on.

I'm a new-car guy. Others like to travel. Others like to save 40 percent. Others like expensive beer or scotch. Others like to go to Vegas. To each his or her own.

In my perfect world, anybody who puts in the time to get an education and/or training and works hard at his or her job should be able to afford to meet their basic needs, save 10 percent AND at least one thing over and above that.

 

Indeed. We're not really that different that people who chose teaching or social work or public health or politics, or even some kinds of law. We chose a career of "doing good" rather than one of "doing well," and, unfortunately, that's reflected in our paychecks, which are smaller than the college friends who chose accounting or finance or some such shit and who aren't any smarter than us but make two or three times as much.
Yeah, it sucks. But it's not like you didn't know this going in. And I'd like to think most of us enjoy our jobs more than the junior consultant crowd.
If you've had enough, then quit. Go do PR, or get an MBA.
Or do what I did, and marry up, ideally someone who works in health care and who's job isn't going anywhere.

 

I don't think that's completely true. I was pretty shocked when I got my $10/hour first full-time offer. Until then, I had been making from $50-$85 a pop as a stringer, which actually did feel like pretty decent money. But I thought I'd move up pretty quickly and that the money would be there, because I was good. I guess I was kind of sheltered and didn't realize that people who are "good" are about a dime a dozen in this business.

It's not the low starting salaries that are as frustrating as the absolute lack of upward mobility for 90-plus percent of us. Apparently there are still some college kids and "young f-in' studs" still moving up the line, but on the other side of 30, I wouldn't even know where to begin to try to find one of those jobs. Plus, at this age, who wants to chase $2,000 raises around the country, you know? That part's my problem, I realize, not the industry's. It is what it is.

Point being - you're not a lesser person if, at some point, you decide to put your family and financial security above chasing that elusive Pulitzer.

 

Yeah, I concur. That's part of the reason I left. I had some opportunities to move up to much bigger publications my last couple years in the biz, but I loved the area I lived in, and my friends and family were all nearby. The industry is such that you can't move up without moving all over the country, which effectively prevents you from putting down any roots. I've changed jobs three times since leaving the biz, and I've been able to stay in the same house through it all. There's something to be said for having that little bit of constancy and being able to put down some roots.

I sometimes wonder what does more good in the end -- choosing a career of doing "good" like one of the ones you mentioned and making little money, or choosing a career of doing "well", making lots of money, and then pouring some of that back into good causes. I know that not everyone who chooses a career of doing "well" will do that with their money, but if you want to spend your life doing something good for society, which path makes the bigger difference?

 

Man, Captain, now you're getting all philosophical and shit.
No, I agree, the moving all over the country to chase a new job thing is a major drawback. Especially since changing jobs is about the only way to get a significant raise. I did it about a year ago for a good jump in paper size and paycheck, but now Mrs. Irish and I both live 1,200 miles from our families, which'll suck if we decide to have wee laddies any time soon. I figure I've got one, maybe two jumps left, and I'd like to land back home, at a salary I can afford to raise a family on, but it's hard to see how that happens with the business the way it is these days. So maybe I need to start thinking about other gigs.
So, absolutely, there are trade-offs, and one of the things we trade off in this line of work is money. It's always been that way. And for many of us, it does eventually stop being worth it. Nothing "lesser" about that, just a decision we all have to make at some point. But probably not one that should come as a big surprise.

 

Understandable. But if someone offers that they pay $300/month for a new car and then complains that "I can't make ends meet" . . . the door is open for unsolicited critiques.

Does the "education" we get really help that much in our jobs? Naturally, it's always good to know more and to read and write as much as possible. But I did not leave college with any information or skills that I can say I definitely acquired there and that definitely helped me in my first job.

It's simply not like law or medicine or business or engineering. The education may be a prerequisite to getting a job (and in rare cases it is not) . . . but the education in itself is relatively meaningless to the actual job. One of the most talented people at my paper moved from sports to local a few years ago. He's now the local columnist. His major in college? Russian.