What happened to the Bonds racial witch-hunt argument?

I don't feel uppity.

 

I think McGwire has been brought to center of attention for a few weeks for a different set of reasons: a) his suspicion-raising performance before Congress, b) his breaking of Roger Maris' single-season record, and c) that he's the first suspected slugger to come up for HOF election. All these made him a good whipping boy for the moralists the past month or so.

Steroids, of course, is the overriding issue but I don't think the reasons that cause individuals to get singled out (fairly or unfairly) necessarily need to be the same.

 

I think DD's point is valid, though. The talk-radio wackos and journalistas will jump all over the white guy who makes waves just as quickly. They love controversy regardless of the skin color.

 

It seems to me you're cognizant of the incredibly obvious, mixed in with your usual witch-hunt tactics when it comes to this subject.

 

Ok,

This is a very good & relevant thread with serious thoughts & issues presented.

So, past differences aside, props to Ragu for starting it & excellent post to start it out.

Here are my thoughts:

1.) Although I am of mixed race I have never chosen to see myself that way (as a "race" (although I enjoy my culture on both sides)). Rather, I simply see myself as an American, or even more basic as a person, a unique individual. I think that seeing things through a racial lense (particularly at a personally level) leads you backwards not forwards & that personal actions and responsibility are almost always to thank or blame for success or failure in life & not race, etc.

2.) That being said, we had a major racial problem in this county (world-wide really) and we are still haunted by that to this day, but I am optimistic and see this as diminishing over time as cultures interact & we have seen strong evidence of that.

3.) That background being laid, I definitely feel that all this talk of race (and to a small degree race baiting (which I am ALWAYS against)) has been off the mark (no pun) in terms of the Barry side of the scandal as we have seen with McGwire results. I am not saying race was not a factor but by no means the primary factor for the coverage of him

4.) Cranberry's posts are really really good in this thread and well thought out.

More in a bit - let me think a bit on this

John

 

Ok, I think I have some more to say here now

Comparing Barry to Mark

I predict that barring any unseen events, meaning if everything stays the same on this story when Barry is up for the HOF, Barry will get into the HOF - certainly.

Why?

1.) Barry is a better player than Mark in most aspects of the game. That is a just a fact

2.) It will be at least 6 years before Barry is eligible for the HOF and this story will have moved WAY down the road in the way people talk & think about this. Meaning that people will realize that many if not most MLB players have always taken something.

People need to think three dimensionally on this and realize how time is going to affect things - how things will move (as they already have to some degree). Think of it like this it used to be that if you admitted using pot you couldn't run for President or be a Supreme Court Justice. Now we have a major Presidential candidate who admits to using coke (Obama) & a sitting President with rumors of the same. Not to say it is a "plus" but it has become almost a non-issue, or at least certainly not a disqualifying issue. Now you can argue as to if that should or shouldn't be the case - but that is the reality as of today.

3.) I think given the above I don't see how any voter could possibly keep out one of the best players ever, regardless of if he used steroids, HGH, or whatever. Honestly, the HOF voters know that - thus you will have twisted logic like Barry would have been HOF player without & Mark would not have.
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side note: why is that stupid logic (end of #3 above)?

Because use does not = use.

Meaning that player A taking say 200mg of one drug for 4 weeks does not = player B taking 1000mg of the same drug + 5 other drugs for years.

Moreover, different drugs have different effects and strengths (and there are 100's of drugs). Also different combinations of drugs can have vastly different effects.

Further, drugs are going to effect each player differently. Some may have a bad reaction and get WORSE or sick off of certain drugs & others may be "hyperresponders" and may have say 150-300% the response a normal person would have to a certain drug.

Thus use does not = use
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To be continued

 

Continued from last post

Ok, right.

So, in large measure I think Mark was a victim of being in the wrong place at the wrong time & being a big name people could focus on regarding this issue.

Thus, I agree that being the first big name up for HOF "under a cloud of suspicion" (or whatever you want to call it) + his Congressional testimony disaster + his unwillingness to talk and clear up/rehabilitate himself caused the vote to turn out how it did.

Do I think that is fair, HELL NO (as we all know by now) & that is why I chose to speak out.

I also believe that had Mark been up for the HOF even 2 years from now it would be a different issue & he would get in. Heck, if he was not the first name under suspicion up for the HOF he may have gotten in.

Some may say that well let's see if Mark gets in in two years - well not that simple. Why? Well because a lot of HOF voters have spoken out & taken strong positions and as my threads have proven many Sport's J's have a hard time admitting they are wrong, changing their minds & saying they are sorry (try it more often it will free you (on a serious note there is a groundbreaking study out of Stanford that forgiving people is critical to happiness and health)).

But look that is hard for anyone to do, particularly people in the public eye that have bigger egos, etc. I am not taking a shot that is just the truth, me included.

So, Mark became the sacrificial lamb - in part due to his own actions & inactions & in part due to bad timing and a serious lack of info on the public's part to this issue (the truth about drug use in sports)).

What is up with Barry

I have met Barry a few times & interviewed him & know people that know him.

I personally think Barry is pretty smart (or at the very least knows the right angle on this and keeps it simple).

Barry realizes a few things (or feels thusly):
1.) In his mind this is all BS
2.) He does not trust any reporters
3.) HE knows if he keeps performing well & breaking records it is going to be so hard to keep him out of the HOF
4.) Either way he still gets paid REAL large and is a mega star, which counts the most anyway.
5.) He is waiting you all out knowing that times will change & people will chill

Honestly, I am all but convinced that that is Mark's strategy (#5) but Mark is not in the same position as Barry and is playing his cards wrong. Although, also in Mark's case a LARGE part of him just wants to be left alone and lead a normal life now.

 

Is that why Terrell Owens is always at the top of the list of jersey sales?

 

Why was Barry attacked on this issue

1.) Race had nothing (or very little) to do with it. Now that is not to say that some people didn't have racial motivations & I think that yeah SOME people might not like to see a strong arrogant black person on the one hand & yet MOST do on the other hand (who gets all the press TO, Deion, Tyson, etc.). I don't think it is about race I think people love confidence and love stars (black, white, green, or purple). They want excitement, entertainment & a good story. Someone that is quiet, humble & meek does not get noticed. That is a boring story or no story at all. Hey maybe a good friend, but not a performer, and entertainer.

Look, we all want that larger than life person & in the end it is all about $$ anyway for the corps & marketing agencies. We can sit here and get super analytical but suffice it to say chasing race on this issue is a red herring.

2.) No Barry was attacked due to a confluence of factors.
a.) He is the biggest name in baseball
b.) He is breaking the biggest records in baseball (for a hitter)
c.) He is connected to BALCO (the heart of the story)
d.) He is at "ground zero" for the story (Bay Area)
e.) He and Mark kind of "fed off" each other if you will for this story (with reporters talking about race comparisons etc.)
f.) He says F' you to reporters which drives them crazy because many want to feel important (although nobody likes this)
g.) He has a pretty good media presence and can give good bytes so that helps propell the story
h.) He is still playing

Yeah those are most of the reasons.

As for why it all started, well look, we love our hero's but we also love to trash them. People are petty and jealous.

If you can't do something a weak person will want to tear down the person who can instead of improving themselves or being content with who they are.

Sad to say but that is just human nature.

So someone sees Barry and says "why is he so rich and famous and I am not...who does he think he is? I have X degrees and he doesn't - that is unfair!".

Well no, it is fair, but it doesn't seem fair to this person. So this person goes on what looks like a personal vendetta against Barry & many in the media and public lap it up.

Again, because while people want leaders and role models to aspire to it is hard for many to deal with the fact that those role models are indeed better than us in certain ways. Barry fits that category.

So, we all need to grow up in that respect & look we all have dirt - no one is perfect. If we spend all out time chasing dirt on others where does that really get us...uh nowhere. It is like a dog chasing its tail.

My points have been when we ask about "scandal" or "cheating" is do we have the right context & the right facts. Moreover, what are we really asking of those people in each situation?

(i.e., I REALLY care if my airline pilot is taking drugs or is drinking while working, but if an NBA player smokes weed in the offseason somewhere that it is legal - not so much)

Anyway, those are my thoughts for now

John

 

I'm just glad it came in short bursts.

 

Dear God, make it stop.

So many words, so little content.