What happened to the Bonds racial witch-hunt argument?

JDV, it's not a matter of needing to feel important, but I agree that some of the problems Bonds has are members of the media who dislike him personally. He has treated so many people like shit for so long that he is not going to get the benefit of the doubt from anybody. I'm sure you would simply turn the other cheek no matter how badly you were treated. May we all live up to such a shining example.

That said, I've always like Bonds as a player. I'm a Pirates fan. I knew he was a prick when he was a Pirate, but that didn't stop me from rooting for the guy. I still do, to be honest.

And nobody cares if the steroids worked or didn't work. They aren't LEGAL. And even if they only helped the player a little, it is still wrong.

That said, Bonds was a Hall of Famer without performance enhancing drugs. Most of the evidence points to him not using until after he went to the Giants. Bonds was the best player in baseball before he left the Pirates and he won the NL MVP two of his last three seasons in Pittsburgh (should have been all three).

We've seen Bonds as a dominant player at a time that the evidence points to him being clean.

 

Please list all of the white (or Latino or Asian) wave-causing players who have been embraced.

Also, I'd enjoy a differentiation of exactly how Bonds is a wave-causer rather than just a fucking prick who did steroids. Bonds grew up in one of the richest suburbs in the country and I'm not sure he's ever been militant about anything other than his expansive locker area.

 

The guys who swam to America, you mean?

 

Looks like this debate went through a major change with the report that Bonds failed a test for amphetamines coming out late last night (see other thread).

 

Not for everyone.. some will still carry their tired old drumbeat...

 

White guys off the type of my head:
- Clint Mathis
- Jeremy Shockey
- Dan Marino (By all accounts he was a major asshole)

 

Does Robert Montgomery Knight count?

 

I was under the impression that there are no white athletes, only whites that are students of the game and work really really hard on the little things that bring them to the attention of coaches. But those things which require pure atheltic skill, like dunking, running & catching, and defending dunking, running and catching are beyond most whites' ability.
There can't be a white Michael Vick.

 

Mitch A. and slappy like to listen to the drums of the rain forest as they practice their night moves.

 

OOP,

I hear what you are saying - but I disagree for a few reasons, or rather would point out where that line of reasoning becomes difficult to be consistant & fair with.

First, I agree with you Barry can be a prick. When I interviewed him - I am not sure if he knew I was a friend of Mark's or not. I think he did (they were playing against each other & thus both there & I had just done some stuff with Mac) & I am not sure if that was helping or hurting me.

Anyway, Barry was being real difficult to say the least and punking me out (making fun of me, looking at me hard). He also brought his teammates into this as well laughing at me, etc. This went on for about 5 minutes maybe & there were a few points that I thought we might actually "go" (rumble). I just stood there & took a step forward instead of back, laughed and kept asking questions. I think he understood that I was good to go if he wanted to take it there & none too worried about that.

Finally, Barry chilled out and actually gave me a good & funny interview & we parted on friendly terms.

Now did I enjoy that? Not really - but it is a funny story. Could Barry have made that a LOT easier for both of us - of course, but I was a nobody to him & he was doing his thing.

I guess let me put it this way going through what I went through once -eh no big deal. If I had to cover him every day and he did that, yeah that would suck, but I doubt he would do that every day after that incident, but who knows, maybe he would.

In any event, I know first hand that Barry can be a prick and will try to punk and belittle Sport's J's just doing their job. Nobody likes that & I would not either. For whatever reason it turned out ok for me.

To be continued

 

Continued from last post

As to the drug use thing.

Well, we all saw the amphetamine test failure by now & as I have said that is the real drug danger in baseball (far more dangerous & prevalent) & has been for many decades.

The problem with saying illegal = cheating = no HOF or something is several things:

1.) Illegal - most of these guys can get perscriptions for whatever they want.

2.) So then let's look at cheating - you can take the position that anything against the rules of baseball is cheating. Ok, but what about spitballs, corked bats, Brett's pine tar, scuffing balls (real common), dead balls, greasing the ball (Roger's et al), stealing signs, heck even hitting batters?

Also, if we talk just about drugs as I have said there is a whole encyclopedia of drugs to talk about. But what about the "legal" drugs.

Heck even a great anti-inflammatory or a pain killer, or a ton of caffeine (why do you think that is banned by the IOC for comps) can be a good performance enhancer as well.

I love Ripkin but if you think that he made his iron man streak without some kind of assistance along the way, that is something I would be skeptical about.

I remember hanging with the guys and traveling to games, etc. for a couple of weeks & it was so exhausting & I was in great shape & didn't drink a drop.

These guys have to do 162 games + a year and basically work out, play games, then go out and party late & do it all again the next day + travel. Many of you know what I am saying - that schedule & lifestyle is brutal. Do you think they need a little help? I know of a lot of guys popping greenies just to play - a LOT of guys (especially when they were up till 3-6am partying and drunk & had a day game the next day).

This is super common & we can see that in how baseball approached amphetamine testing and penalties vs steroids. I think there have been articles this year about guys going nuts on the coffee/caffeine to try to make up for the increased scrutiny on greenies.

It is like I was telling my mom last night when we were talking about this issue. I mentioned Lance & she doesn't like him (I love him). She said something about drugs & I said..."uh ok, that sports is soaked & baked with drugs mom. Exactly what part of a 2000+mile (whatever the distance is) 27 some odd day straight bike race up crazy mountains & tough weather sounds normal to you? How many normal athletes without a lot of help could do that?". To which she replied "well I don't think anybody should do it its not healthy"...ok mom.

It is like we say in the law Res Ipsa Loquitor (sp?), which is Latin for "the thing speaks for itself".

Again, I am fully against drugs in sports, but I am also realistic and don't believe in witch hunts.

I also think it is just sports and not someting serious like a war or curing cancer - people need to take a breath & relax.

Mostly, I think that true analysis will reveal that this is a very murky issue with many many shades of grey and a "black & white" approach is not that sophisticated or mature (no offense).

Anyway, good post.

We both agree Bonds deserves to be in the HOF. Let's hope he doesn't self destruct between now & then.

John

PS - I was a Pirates fan as well & grew up there during the Stargel (sp?) & "we are family" years.

 

Well, now I know the definition of "punk".