WHOA! .... Bill Conlin resigns amid child molestation investigation

Drip · Dec 21, 2011

WriteThinking said:

SF_Express said:

Point of Order said:

Except they did come forward as kids. What were they supposed to do when their parents did nothing? Call a press conference? The real truth that NO ONE wants to discuss is that child molestation is often swept under the rug and overlooked.
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Yeah, I didn't express that very well. But there was some skepticism that it's now coming out "in public," I sensed, and again, means zilch.
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It's true that, back in that era, adults simply didn't talk about this problem much, and it certainly wasn't discussed in a public forum.

Not that it shouldn't have been, but it was just the way things were.

That said, however, much of the problem with cases involving young children, especially from a long time ago, is determining the truth of the matter -- the actual extent of abuse, the ages of kids, and veracity of their memories.

Just because a kid says it, should it always be trusted, and should guilt automatically be assumed? No matter what?

I'm just asking.

Because this actually happened to me once, when I was about eight or nine, with an older uncle on my mother's side. It wasn't a constant abuse. I'd been sitting next to him, showing and talking to him about some books on a nearby bookshelf that were of interest to me at the time. Suddenly the man's fingers were in an inappropriate place, kind of messaging. I was immediately uncomfortable and remember being surprised and wondering what he was doing. Once I realized he wasn't stopping on his own, I simply got up and left the room, however, and that was all there was to it, so I was lucky in comparison to some kids.

It stayed with me, however (as you can probably tell), and after the man's visit had ended and he'd left our house a few days later, I remember telling my mother about what happened.

Her eyes widened, she sucked in a shocked breath, and then had exactly the reaction as these other adults: "Don't you ever say anything to anybody, especially Grandma (it was her brother) about this."

She could tell I was being serious and I think she believed me, but I don't know if anything else WAS ever said about it, between my mom and her uncle, or not, and I have no idea if he did that sort of thing all the time, or not. As it happened, I never saw the man again, though. So, again, I was lucky, I guess.

While I remember this incident, clearly, even to this day, I'm not certain I'm somebody who you could say was scarred for life by it, and I'm not sure the guy, or my mother, would have deserved to be shot over it.

Furthermore, if I had been much younger than I was, I'm not sure I would have remembered it at all. Unless you're the person involved, I'm not sure it's possible to know for sure about these things, and many of the responses we give about how bad, horrible and perverted this is (of course it is) are simply the politically correct ones, the ones I'm not absolutely certain that somebody would always give in every situation of this type, if they were actually in the midst of it.

Rightly or wrongly, and for better or worse, I think these adults did what human beings often do when they're not sure what to say or do: That is, they say/do nothing.
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Wow. Powerful story. Have you undergone therapy?

Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!! · Dec 21, 2011

WriteThinking said:

SF_Express said:

Point of Order said:

Except they did come forward as kids. What were they supposed to do when their parents did nothing? Call a press conference? The real truth that NO ONE wants to discuss is that child molestation is often swept under the rug and overlooked.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I didn't express that very well. But there was some skepticism that it's now coming out "in public," I sensed, and again, means zilch.
Click to expand...

It's true that, back in that era, adults simply didn't talk about this problem much, and it certainly wasn't discussed in a public forum.

Not that it shouldn't have been, but it was just the way things were.

That said, however, much of the problem with cases involving young children, especially from a long time ago, is determining the truth of the matter -- the actual extent of abuse, the ages of kids, and veracity of their memories.

Just because a kid says it, should it always be trusted, and should guilt automatically be assumed? No matter what?

I'm just asking.

Because this actually happened to me once, when I was about eight or nine, with an older uncle on my mother's side. It wasn't a constant abuse. I'd been sitting next to him, showing and talking to him about some books on a nearby bookshelf that were of interest to me at the time. Suddenly the man's fingers were in an inappropriate place, kind of messaging. I was immediately uncomfortable and remember being surprised and wondering what he was doing. Once I realized he wasn't stopping on his own, I simply got up and left the room, however, and that was all there was to it, so I was lucky in comparison to some kids.

It stayed with me, however (as you can probably tell), and after the man's visit had ended and he'd left our house a few days later, I remember telling my mother about what happened.

Her eyes widened, she sucked in a shocked breath, and then had exactly the reaction as these other adults: "Don't you ever say anything to anybody, especially Grandma (it was her brother) about this."

She could tell I was being serious and I think she believed me, but I don't know if anything else WAS ever said about it, between my mom and her uncle, or not, and I have no idea if he did that sort of thing all the time, or not. As it happened, I never saw the man again, though. So, again, I was lucky, I guess.

While I remember this incident, clearly, even to this day, I'm not certain I'm somebody who you could say was scarred for life by it, and I'm not sure the guy, or my mother, would have deserved to be shot over it.

Furthermore, if I had been much younger than I was, I'm not sure I would have remembered it at all. Unless you're the person involved, I'm not sure it's possible to know for sure about these things, and many of the responses we give about how bad, horrible and perverted this is (of course it is) are simply the politically correct ones, the ones I'm not absolutely certain that somebody would always give in every situation of this type, if they were actually in the midst of it.

Rightly or wrongly, and for better or worse, I think these adults did what human beings often do when they're not sure what to say or do: That is, they say/do nothing.
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In cases like this... I alwasy think about the California daycare incident/witch hunt. It's a stark reminder of the point you bring up ...

But in Conlin's incidents, that doesn't appear to be the case. Four kids - not one- accused him. Based on the story, it doesn't appear he's innocent of these charges - based on other family members stating he cried and begged for forgiveness when confronted.

21 · Dec 21, 2011

Drip said:

21 said:

Drip said:

Also, is it possible that Conlin has blocked these incidents, if true, from his memory? Just throwing it out there. Stranger things have been said.
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Only by you.
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If you know anything about psychology, and I'm not about to go psych 101 on you, you would know that it's not a strange thought. I've done more than my share of abuse stories over the years to know that abusers can also shut out periods of their lives when things occurred.
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I had a longer response to this, but seems pretty clear we're about to have yet another thread dominated by the witless wisdom of Drip. So instead I'll just quote one of favorite posts ever to appear on this site:

Gutter said:

Shut up, Drip.
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Drip · Dec 21, 2011

poindexter said:

jr/shotglass said:

poindexter said:

For some people in Philadelphia, this is like finding out there's no Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy. Conlin was a beloved figure to many.

Complete and utter horseshit.
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I'm not a fan, but you honestly think your opinion on his ability is sufficient to completely write off the possibility that some people hold his writing in high regard?
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Yes.
I didn't write a word about his writing ability. Conlin played a curmudgeon 52 weeks a year on Sunday mornings for several decades. His writing reflected his personality. He was churlish. He wasn't Vin Scully. A whole fucking pedophile scandal involving an actual beloved figure, and beloved football program is happening at the same time, in the same state, for chrissakes. For someone to write, on December 20, 2011, that Conlin diddled kids is like finding out there is no Santa Claus, is absolute horseshit.
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I'll ask one more time: What in your career have you done to merit the notoriety of a Bill Conlin? Judging from your response, I'm going to guess that you have less than a decade of experience. I'm also going to surmise that you have never lived in the Delaware Valley so you really don't have a clue about what I'm talking about. This guy was respected and highly regarded by many.

jr/shotglass · Dec 21, 2011

Drip said:

I'm also going to surmise that you have never lived in the Delaware Valley so you really don't have a clue about what I'm talking about.
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Whoa. As someone who comes off as an expert on every 2,500-daily opening in southwestern North Dakota, that's a really shaky pedestal you're standing on there.

Dick Whitman · Dec 21, 2011

In Drip's defense, he has always been the biggest Conlin fanboi on this site, by a longshot.

The fact that he's come around as far as he has on this story is an accomplishment.

Azrael · Dec 21, 2011

If we can all just ignore the sidebar and press on, I'll ask this: What now? For the paper? For Conlin? For the victims?

playthrough · Dec 21, 2011

SF_Express said:

Also, I'm learning a lot about this Hall of Fame business today. As everybody has said, broadcasters and writers are listed nowhere "in the Hall" and this paragraph makes it a pretty clear distinction, again never mentioning anything concerning Hall induction:

The 2011 Induction Weekend will feature the debut of a new Saturday afternoon event that will honor the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum annual award winners in a free event at historic Doubleday Field. The Hall of Fame Awards Presentation will salute the 2011 winner of the Ford C. Frick Award for baseball broadcasting excellence, Dave Van Horne; the Buck O'Neil Lifetime Achievement Award winner Roland Hemond; and the 2011 J.G. Taylor Spink Award winner for meritorious contributions to baseball journalism, Bill Conlin, with the presentation of the awards and speeches from the award recipients at 4:30 p.m. on Saturday, July 23, at Doubleday Field in Cooperstown.
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So, I guess it's always good to learn something, even when you're slightly embarrassed by it. I always assumed there was a Hall wing for writers, and I'm too old to be doing that word.
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News organizations should get this right, of course, but to the average fan I'm not sure there's much distinction. Obviously they know the writers/broadcasters didn't play, but honorees got an award on the steps at Cooperstown and now they're in the building forever. That's pretty much HOF to the average fan. Just saying.

Raiders · Dec 21, 2011

Drip said:

poindexter said:

For some people in Philadelphia, this is like finding out there's no Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy. Conlin was a beloved figure to many.

Complete and utter horseshit.
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What have you done in this business, if you are in this business, to merit the notoriety that Conlin has achieved in his career? I'm not trying to out you or anything but it's obvious you have no idea the impact or the talent this guy had.
If you're looking to pick a fight, do it somewhere else, please. I don't think this is the thread for it.
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Misuse of "notoriety." Look it up. It is not an automatic substitute for "fame."

jr/shotglass · Dec 21, 2011

Azrael said:

If we can all just ignore the sidebar and press on, I'll ask this: What now? For the paper? For Conlin? For the victims?
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Well, the paper will continue to join the rest of us in the slow march to death.

I'll let the rest to others.

Dick Whitman · Dec 21, 2011

Azrael said:

If we can all just ignore the sidebar and press on, I'll ask this: What now? For the paper? For Conlin? For the victims?
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Not much. This is not a story with a satisfying conclusion. It just ... is.

Drip · Dec 21, 2011

jr/shotglass said:

Drip said:

I'm also going to surmise that you have never lived in the Delaware Valley so you really don't have a clue about what I'm talking about.
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Whoa. As someone who comes off as an expert on every 2,500-daily opening in southwestern North Dakota, that's a really shaky pedestal you're standing on there.
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I have never proclaimed to be an expert on anything. That's your view, not mine. However, I do have first-hand knowledge of life in the Delaware Valley.

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WHOA! .... Bill Conlin resigns amid child molestation investigation

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