Will this business ever wise up and pay better?

sartrean · Jan 20, 2007

clutchcargo said:

It's not enough just to sit there and say, Well, I think this business should pay us more. Putting yourself in the shoes of management, why? Out of the goodness of their heart? How much is enough?

A few scattered thoughts:

1. Any business in its right mind will pay employees what the market can bear. If you don't like your 30K job, this is a free country and you can leave for greener pastures anytime. There will be someone as good as you waiting to do your job for 28K. That's just the truth.

2. You did know the salary range going into this business, right?

3. Go back to school, law school, get your law degree, and then you can go out and make 50K a year starting salary by gouging gullible people and chasing ambulances. That'll make you feel better and feed the family.

4. Try robbing a bank or printing your own money down in the basement or out in the garage.

Papers are laying off people and going out of business right and left. Squeezing pennies to make the bottom line isn't being Scrooge, it's called surviving. In such a climate, what rationale should a for-profit business use in justifying an arbitrary raise of all salaries 20% across the board? Or maybe 30%? 50%?

If I came to you and said, "Okay, I'll raise you from 30K a year to 45K a year, but I'm going to HAVE to lay off off a third of the workforce, and you need to tell me who to let go---you give me the names," what would your reaction be?
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I don't understand why so many people think lawyers spend their time chasing ambulances.

And 50K a year for a trial lawyer (which you insinuate with the ambulance chasing reference) is quite low, even for an entry level position.

If one has a law degree, one is not necessarily tied to depositions and court rooms. A law degree opens doors for just about any profession.

My good friend is a lawyer. He does research for a university, and makes about 120K a year.

My cousin is a first-year lawyer in Texas, working for a non-profit. She makes well over 50K a year.

I know a lawyer who coaches pop warner football every year. He works for a municipality near me and makes 150K a year.

Of these three lawyers I know, none of them have ever stepped foot in a court room. None of them have ever chased an ambulance. And none of them have ever been worried about finding gainful employment.

Satchel Pooch · Jan 20, 2007

cougargirl said:

I like to think that by 30, someone in this industry finds his or her niche or finds him or herself at a crossroads and has to make the decision what to do next. For some people I know, that means becoming a desker/sports editor. For others, it means being firmly planted at a desirable destination where the pay is good.

And for others, they get out. They can't take the low pay, the hours, the abuse and decide that there's another path for them. And usually there is.

Then again, I've also seen that happen to people much earlier in their careers - one of the most promising reporters I knew left the business five years after she graduated from college because she couldn't take covering high school sports any longer for such little pay.

The decisions and motivations to leave are all relative, and it's not necessarily about pay. But no, sadly, I don't forsee the status quo in regards to pay changing.
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Hi, wife. I didn't know you posted on here.

Pringle · Jan 20, 2007

sartrean said:

clutchcargo said:

It's not enough just to sit there and say, Well, I think this business should pay us more. Putting yourself in the shoes of management, why? Out of the goodness of their heart? How much is enough?

A few scattered thoughts:

1. Any business in its right mind will pay employees what the market can bear. If you don't like your 30K job, this is a free country and you can leave for greener pastures anytime. There will be someone as good as you waiting to do your job for 28K. That's just the truth.

2. You did know the salary range going into this business, right?

3. Go back to school, law school, get your law degree, and then you can go out and make 50K a year starting salary by gouging gullible people and chasing ambulances. That'll make you feel better and feed the family.

4. Try robbing a bank or printing your own money down in the basement or out in the garage.

Papers are laying off people and going out of business right and left. Squeezing pennies to make the bottom line isn't being Scrooge, it's called surviving. In such a climate, what rationale should a for-profit business use in justifying an arbitrary raise of all salaries 20% across the board? Or maybe 30%? 50%?

If I came to you and said, "Okay, I'll raise you from 30K a year to 45K a year, but I'm going to HAVE to lay off off a third of the workforce, and you need to tell me who to let go---you give me the names," what would your reaction be?
Click to expand...

I don't understand why so many people think lawyers spend their time chasing ambulances.
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Two words: Rush. Limbaugh.

He puts this kind of shit out there until people repeat it as fact.

Just wait until the John Edwards train starts really rolling again. You'll think "lawyer" is code for "clubs baby seals" by the time that smear campaign insinuates itself into his flock.

DyePack · Jan 20, 2007

Jersey_Guy said:

This may piss some people off (and I think Gold and I have actually gone around on this one before), but I truly believe the money isn't that bad in journalism if you're talented and/or willing to move around the country and play one paper off the other.

Too many people aren't. So they're stuck making bad money.

If you're working for a weekly or a bad-paying 20k JRC daily, there's a reason for that. Either you don't have the talent to move up, or you're staying in that geographic area for personal reasons, or some combination of both.

In 1990, I graduated J-school with four other good friends. Today, those guys work for two Top 10 dailies and two major magazines, while I work for a good mid-size newspaper. Each of us is living that American dream that Mike Gee claims is dead (incidentally, three of the five are also married to journalists, one is single, the other's wife is a stay-at-home mom, so spousal salaries aren't much of a factor). Four of the five own nice homes, the fifth has a small apartment just off Central Park. Although I'm in the smallest and least-prestigeous gig, and probably make the least money of the group, I live - by design - in an area of the country with a much lower cost of living, and as a result might have the highest standard of living in terms of housing and disposable income than my friends.

Some of us are editors, some are writers. Each of us has made at least four job changes in that period, trading up in each case. Each of us had to move far from home early in our careers for a job that turned out to be critical.

And this isn't a story of young studs and great jobs out of school. I made $295 a week in my first job at an 11k daily. All the people I'm talking about started at similar jobs, some of them part-time.

Too many times I meet relatively talented young writers who are working in a bad gig in a certain market, or are part-timers at the area's large daily, and they absolutely will not move. They are wed to our area and believe they'll eventually move up. Too often, they don't.

Be flexible. Be willing to consider moving, whether it's geographically or to the desk. Do these things and your odds of making better money go up exponentially.

And if you ever find your salary slipping well below your age (if, say, you're 35 and making 25k), it's time to seriously consider going back to school unless you're comfortable with that situation.
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Summary of this B.S.:

"I know people who don't have this problem. I don't have this problem. So there is no problem."

What an ftard.

Cosmo · Jan 20, 2007

OK, this is just weird.

Montezuma's Revenge · Jan 20, 2007

How did this happen?

shotglass · Jan 20, 2007

Oh, this stalker is one of the better ones, buck.

shotglass · Jan 21, 2007

There aren't. You were absolutely right.

There are plenty of examples that a life in newspapers doesn't necessarily mean a life in poverty.

DyePack · Jan 21, 2007

Jersey_Guy said:

DyePack said:

Jersey_Guy said:

This may piss some people off (and I think Gold and I have actually gone around on this one before), but I truly believe the money isn't that bad in journalism if you're talented and/or willing to move around the country and play one paper off the other.

Too many people aren't. So they're stuck making bad money.

If you're working for a weekly or a bad-paying 20k JRC daily, there's a reason for that. Either you don't have the talent to move up, or you're staying in that geographic area for personal reasons, or some combination of both.

In 1990, I graduated J-school with four other good friends. Today, those guys work for two Top 10 dailies and two major magazines, while I work for a good mid-size newspaper. Each of us is living that American dream that Mike Gee claims is dead (incidentally, three of the five are also married to journalists, one is single, the other's wife is a stay-at-home mom, so spousal salaries aren't much of a factor). Four of the five own nice homes, the fifth has a small apartment just off Central Park. Although I'm in the smallest and least-prestigeous gig, and probably make the least money of the group, I live - by design - in an area of the country with a much lower cost of living, and as a result might have the highest standard of living in terms of housing and disposable income than my friends.

Some of us are editors, some are writers. Each of us has made at least four job changes in that period, trading up in each case. Each of us had to move far from home early in our careers for a job that turned out to be critical.

And this isn't a story of young studs and great jobs out of school. I made $295 a week in my first job at an 11k daily. All the people I'm talking about started at similar jobs, some of them part-time.

Too many times I meet relatively talented young writers who are working in a bad gig in a certain market, or are part-timers at the area's large daily, and they absolutely will not move. They are wed to our area and believe they'll eventually move up. Too often, they don't.

Be flexible. Be willing to consider moving, whether it's geographically or to the desk. Do these things and your odds of making better money go up exponentially.

And if you ever find your salary slipping well below your age (if, say, you're 35 and making 25k), it's time to seriously consider going back to school unless you're comfortable with that situation.
Click to expand...

Summary of this B.S.:

"I know people who don't have this problem. I don't have this problem. So there is no problem."

What an ftard.
Click to expand...

Just kills ya that some folks aren't sharing your tiny little life of perpetual bitterness, huh, Dye?

If I'd known there were ground rules of only posting info that confirmed the original premise, I'd have stuck to them.
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No, I'm just amazed that someone would be enough of an ftard to post what you did (with misspellings), then fail to realize what a non-argument it was.

beefncheddar · Jan 21, 2007

DyePack said:

No, I'm just amazed that someone would be enough of an ftard to post what you did (with misspellings), then fail to realize what a non-argument it was.
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And I'm amazed that with the Bears playing in the NFC title game today, you managed to get the day off. I'd figure this would be a HUGE pizza-delivery day in the Chicagoland area.

DyePack · Jan 21, 2007

mustardbased said:

DyePack said:

No, I'm just amazed that someone would be enough of an ftard to post what you did (with misspellings), then fail to realize what a non-argument it was.
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And I'm amazed that with the Bears playing in the NFC title game today, you managed to get the day off. I'd figure this would be a HUGE pizza-delivery day in the Chicagoland area.
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I've already got my pizza, musFtard. Bought it yesterday.

Oh wait, you're trying to make a funny. Ha ha. My bad.

DyePack · Jan 21, 2007

Jersey_Guy said:

Dye, you really need a hug.
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You really need a clue.

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