Kobe wants Jerry West to return as Lakers GM or he wants out of L.A.

[indiansnetwork]

For the love of god: SHUT.THE.heck.UP.
You wouldn't be pissed if you were Kobe? First he was lied to because of the whole rebuilding. Remember, he wouldn't even be in LA if Buss would've told him that. Then you got the whole trust factor with the little "LA spy" that told that reporter about the Shaq situation. Rok, sometimes your so full of it that it gets to the point of being comical. You know who's right in this. heck, YOU GOT YOUR BOY SHAQ BACKING UP KOBE AND YOU STILL WANNA TAKE HIM DOWN. He didn't ask to play with Smush Parker. He didn't ask to play with Ronny Turiaf in his forking starting lineup. You're quite the character.

Seriously, Kobe made his bed and now he is mad because his bed is ridden with bed bugs and is messy. He is one of the most selfish athletes in the modern times and with this demand to be traded he only further isolates himself from the rest of the league. Is he one of the most talented athletes in the NBA? Absolutely. Did the Lakers do everything they could to win a championship ASAP? No, but to be honest any single move they could have made outside or retaining Shaq would not have made them much better any way. I hope that he stays with his demands and the Lakers never trade him and he has to sit out a season or two because he is taking the focus off a very good playoff series between Detriot and Cleveland with his selfish and outlandish acts. Does he have the right to be mad for being lied to? Yes, but he is just as responsible for this mess as is Mitch K. Kobe plain and simple is just a poor loser and is the perfect example of a spoiled athlete.

 

[broadway joe]

Kobe is so full of shirt. He may not have run Shaq out of town, but does he really expect anyone to believe that the mutual hatred between him and Shaq had nothing to do with Shaq getting traded? Shaq wanted that humongous extension largely because he was in a power struggle with Kobe, and Buss did the only logical thing by choosing to go with Kobe because he had far more good years left in him than Shaq did. Kobe was fine with that at the time, because he wanted to be the man and because he thought he didn't need Shaq in order to keep contending for championships. He didn't listen to the people inside and outside the organization who told him that if he and Shaq could just learn to tolerate each other, they could keep winning titles. Now, because he's finally figured out that it is kind of helpful to have a 350-pound monster dominating the paint after all, and that it's no fun being the star of a mediocre team, he wants to bolt on the Lakers. Kobe had a great thing going and he forked it up because his ego was out of control. Now he wants to pretend that he had nothing to do with creating this mess. fork him.

Unless he gets traded to the Knicks, in which case I'm getting season tickets.

You said it all, man. Buss probably said what he said, but he likely doesn't say it/come to that decision without all the Kobe/Shaq acrimony. To pretend that this doesn't have anything to do with Buss' decision is ridiculous.

More drama with the Drama Queen. Kobe doesn't care about anything but Kobe. He wants out of the West because he's not going anywhere. You got what you wanted, Kobe, and now you want out. Weak.

Kobe to the Clippers. See how the fans treat him -- or how many Lakers fans become Clipper fans overnight.

Like the Lakers would ever trade him to the other team in The Staples Center.

fixed.

I think it's hilarious. I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. He'll change his mind. And he'll be a big baby again if he isn't averaging 35 shots a game even if the Lakers are winning.

Karma's a bench, mr. sexual assault. Deserves whatever he gets.

The Lakers should trade him to the Grizzlies so he's stuck in Memphis. I wonder how many big name players would want to play with him with his reputation anyway.

I always knew that, even if everything was laid out in front of us, and even if Shaq, Kobe and Buss all swore on Bibles their roles in the whole saga, idiots like you two would still let your hatred of Bryant cloud what's going on.
It's pointless to even read this thread, sometimes.

Gimpy, if you believe that the Kobe/Shaq relationship had nothing to do with Shaq being dealt, you're hopelessly naive. Kobe was the happiest man in L.A. the day Shaq got traded. Whether he directly orchestrated it or not, it was exactly what he wanted. Kobe had one of the best centers in NBA history on his team and he didn't want him. For him to turn around now and bench that he doesn't have enough talent around him is comical.

You, and the people like you, clinging to that belief is what's comical, man.
You have Shaq coming out and publicly backing Bryant in that it was Buss who orchestrated the trade of Shaq. Bryant openly admits they didn't get along, but also points out that they got along well enough to win three titles and would've continued to do so. Buss made the decision that Shaq wasn't worth the $80 million to keep (and I don't blame him, honestly). Was Bryant completely devastated by it? No. But to say he lobbied for it is oversimplifying what actually happened. Especially now, when Shaq is corroborating the story.

And, please, don't take this as a personal attack, just a friendly debate. I laughed when you ripped Kobe but then admitted you'd be first in line for season tickets. That was hilarious.

We're cool, Gimpy. Nothing personal. My thing is, it doesn't really matter whether Kobe ran Shaq out or just stood by and watched Buss make the decision. He believed that he could win without Shaq. He wanted that challenge. And now, because he found out that it's harder than he thought it would be, he wants to leave the Lakers holding the bag. He's complaining that he only re-signed with LA because they told him they would rebuild right away. Didn't he realize that sometimes rebuilding plans don't work? That there are no guarantees? Did he think the Lakers were somehow going to get him KG or Jermaine O'Neal or Carlos Boozer even though they had nothing worth trading? It's hard work putting together a championship caliber team. Kobe had one and didn't appreciate it. Instead of trying to take the easy way out and get himself traded, he should shut up, play hard and help the Lakers get back to that level.

 

[Norrin Radd]

My thing is, it doesn't really matter whether Kobe ran Shaq out or just stood by and watched Buss make the decision. He believed that he could win without Shaq. He wanted that challenge. And now, because he found out that it's harder than he thought it would be, he wants to leave the Lakers holding the bag. He's complaining that he only re-signed with LA because they told him they would rebuild right away. Didn't he realize that sometimes rebuilding plans don't work? That there are no guarantees? Did he think the Lakers were somehow going to get him KG or Jermaine O'Neal or Carlos Boozer even though they had nothing worth trading? It's hard work putting together a championship caliber team. Kobe had one and didn't appreciate it. Instead of trying to take the easy way out and get himself traded, he should shut up, play hard and help the Lakers get back to that level.

That I can agree with. If he continues on this path of seeking a trade, it's no different than any brick athlete getting bitter because his salary is too high to get other quality players under NBA cap rules.

I said in summer 2004 that I thoiught Kobe should re-siugn with the Lakers, and make a point to take only half of what he is worth, say about $10 million a year under the current rules. Then he could make the point that while Shaq was run out of town largely (no pun intended) because he was screaming to be paid a cap-killing contract, Kobe BRyant is committed to rebuilding the LA lakers.

Of course, things never happen that way, do they? Whether from personal ego, pressure from an agent or pressure from a players' union that wants to see salaries continue to rise, the max is always in play. heck, maybe NBA rules prevent a player taking less money, but I doubt it.

He had his chance to make a statement; he blew it. He had his chance to facilitate a quick rebuilding by leaving a heck of a lot of cap room on the table. He blew it.

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

Kobe is so full of shirt. He may not have run Shaq out of town, but does he really expect anyone to believe that the mutual hatred between him and Shaq had nothing to do with Shaq getting traded? Shaq wanted that humongous extension largely because he was in a power struggle with Kobe, and Buss did the only logical thing by choosing to go with Kobe because he had far more good years left in him than Shaq did. Kobe was fine with that at the time, because he wanted to be the man and because he thought he didn't need Shaq in order to keep contending for championships. He didn't listen to the people inside and outside the organization who told him that if he and Shaq could just learn to tolerate each other, they could keep winning titles. Now, because he's finally figured out that it is kind of helpful to have a 350-pound monster dominating the paint after all, and that it's no fun being the star of a mediocre team, he wants to bolt on the Lakers. Kobe had a great thing going and he forked it up because his ego was out of control. Now he wants to pretend that he had nothing to do with creating this mess. fork him.

Unless he gets traded to the Knicks, in which case I'm getting season tickets.

You said it all, man. Buss probably said what he said, but he likely doesn't say it/come to that decision without all the Kobe/Shaq acrimony. To pretend that this doesn't have anything to do with Buss' decision is ridiculous.

More drama with the Drama Queen. Kobe doesn't care about anything but Kobe. He wants out of the West because he's not going anywhere. You got what you wanted, Kobe, and now you want out. Weak.

Kobe to the Clippers. See how the fans treat him -- or how many Lakers fans become Clipper fans overnight.

Like the Lakers would ever trade him to the other team in The Staples Center.

fixed.

I think it's hilarious. I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. He'll change his mind. And he'll be a big baby again if he isn't averaging 35 shots a game even if the Lakers are winning.

Karma's a bench, mr. sexual assault. Deserves whatever he gets.

The Lakers should trade him to the Grizzlies so he's stuck in Memphis. I wonder how many big name players would want to play with him with his reputation anyway.

I always knew that, even if everything was laid out in front of us, and even if Shaq, Kobe and Buss all swore on Bibles their roles in the whole saga, idiots like you two would still let your hatred of Bryant cloud what's going on.
It's pointless to even read this thread, sometimes.

Gimpy, if you believe that the Kobe/Shaq relationship had nothing to do with Shaq being dealt, you're hopelessly naive. Kobe was the happiest man in L.A. the day Shaq got traded. Whether he directly orchestrated it or not, it was exactly what he wanted. Kobe had one of the best centers in NBA history on his team and he didn't want him. For him to turn around now and bench that he doesn't have enough talent around him is comical.

You, and the people like you, clinging to that belief is what's comical, man.
You have Shaq coming out and publicly backing Bryant in that it was Buss who orchestrated the trade of Shaq. Bryant openly admits they didn't get along, but also points out that they got along well enough to win three titles and would've continued to do so. Buss made the decision that Shaq wasn't worth the $80 million to keep (and I don't blame him, honestly). Was Bryant completely devastated by it? No. But to say he lobbied for it is oversimplifying what actually happened. Especially now, when Shaq is corroborating the story.

And, please, don't take this as a personal attack, just a friendly debate. I laughed when you ripped Kobe but then admitted you'd be first in line for season tickets. That was hilarious.

We're cool, Gimpy. Nothing personal. My thing is, it doesn't really matter whether Kobe ran Shaq out or just stood by and watched Buss make the decision. He believed that he could win without Shaq. He wanted that challenge. And now, because he found out that it's harder than he thought it would be, he wants to leave the Lakers holding the bag. He's complaining that he only re-signed with LA because they told him they would rebuild right away. Didn't he realize that sometimes rebuilding plans don't work? That there are no guarantees? Did he think the Lakers were somehow going to get him KG or Jermaine O'Neal or Carlos Boozer even though they had nothing worth trading? It's hard work putting together a championship caliber team. Kobe had one and didn't appreciate it. Instead of trying to take the easy way out and get himself traded, he should shut up, play hard and help the Lakers get back to that level.

Again, you're way off.
Kobe never even got the chance to try to have a succesful team because.......THEY NEVER GAVE HIM A TEAM. Think about this man. Ronny Turiaf and Smush Parker in your starting lineup? Tell me any other NBA team that would have those two on there. Name one.
Secondly, Boozer was a free agent so it had nothing to do with a trade. Kupchak said he didn't want to sign Boozer because(this one is special):

He didn't think he could guard other power forwards

And what about the Jason Kidd situation? He didn't want to pull the trade because:

He didn't want to get rid of ANDREW BYNUM.

I didn't even mention Baron Davis or KG.

 

[GimpyScribe]

My thing is, it doesn't really matter whether Kobe ran Shaq out or just stood by and watched Buss make the decision. He believed that he could win without Shaq. He wanted that challenge. And now, because he found out that it's harder than he thought it would be, he wants to leave the Lakers holding the bag. He's complaining that he only re-signed with LA because they told him they would rebuild right away. Didn't he realize that sometimes rebuilding plans don't work? That there are no guarantees? Did he think the Lakers were somehow going to get him KG or Jermaine O'Neal or Carlos Boozer even though they had nothing worth trading? It's hard work putting together a championship caliber team. Kobe had one and didn't appreciate it. Instead of trying to take the easy way out and get himself traded, he should shut up, play hard and help the Lakers get back to that level.

That I can agree with. If he continues on this path of seeking a trade, it's no different than any brick athlete getting bitter because his salary is too high to get other quality players under NBA cap rules.

I said in summer 2004 that I thoiught Kobe should re-siugn with the Lakers, and make a point to take only half of what he is worth, say about $10 million a year under the current rules. Then he could make the point that while Shaq was run out of town largely (no pun intended) because he was screaming to be paid a cap-killing contract, Kobe BRyant is committed to rebuilding the LA lakers.

Of course, things never happen that way, do they? Whether from personal ego, pressure from an agent or pressure from a players' union that wants to see salaries continue to rise, the max is always in play. heck, maybe NBA rules prevent a player taking less money, but I doubt it.

He had his chance to make a statement; he blew it. He had his chance to facilitate a quick rebuilding by leaving a heck of a lot of cap room on the table. He blew it.

While I agree with your sentiment, I'm not going to be Pollyanna about it ... If I'm recalling correctly, this current contract was Kobe Bryant's first maximum deal. Although we derive a lot of entertainment from the sport, let's not forget that this is a business and these players are making a living off this sport. I've always stood by the mindset that deserving NBA players shouldn't be begrudged for signing one "max contract." And, let's not forget, when he signed the deal, it was shortly after the Eagle, Co. incident and his endorsements had gone into the shirtter. Bashing Bryant for signing for the max is wrong.

And, Bryant's max contract isn't the reason they have no flexibility. It's the contracts of Odom and Kwame Brown that are handcuffing the Lakers.

 

[indiansnetwork]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=dw-kobe053007&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
Another excellent article from one of the Yahoo sports writers.
While I may not agree with all his assertions, Dan Wetzel does an excellent job of clearly explaining how he understand why Kobe feels like he has no other choice.

 

[Alma]

All I know is Kobe's acted like a fool today, hopping from show to show, feeling his oats with Stephen A Smith before sounding suicidal on Dan Patrick before acting like a soldier put back in line after that. What's more, he's sounded horribly immature and naive, taking shelter under the wings of Phil Jackson and Jerry West. The whole thing's weird. It's like he's acting out.

Know this: All the apologists at ESPN will make sure he's well-coddled.

 

[Double Down]

The biggest head-scratcher, for me, in all this is this:

What attractive 23-year-old woman in her right mind would ever be willing to get in Dr. Buss' pants, unless she was essentially a hooker?

The man has the worst toupee in professional sports and not only that, IT'S ORANGE.

 

[D-3 Fan]

West certainly lifted that Grizzlies franchise to great heights, eh?

Today is Jerry West's 69th birthday.

What does he need more of this shirt for? Dealing with infants like Kobe Bryant, egomaniacs like Jerry Buss, and legends-in-their-own minds like Phil Jackson?

Yeah, about that Grizz job performance...

I'm sure Jerry is asking himself the same questions you just posed, Starman. Does The Logo really want to go back to that? Guess we'll find out.

Point of clarification. West is building a crib in West Virginia to see his kid play. The only way he will come back to LAL is in the role of special (Part-Time) advisor. Memphis was a fluke.

This is, in my eyes, a power play on Kobe's part. "I won't play another game for the Lakers unless Mitch is gone. If you can get Jerry to come back, I'm down with that. If you end up getting someone else, I'm fine with that too, as long as it's not Mitch." Secondly, reading between the lines of what he told SAS and what he said on KLAC today does sound contridactory, but it's there: "get rid of Mitch." He shifted gears on KLAC to get Laker Fan on his side of the argument vs. Mitch.

Or, get rid of the stiffs that they have accumulated on the bench.

Alma, the way he sounded on his media blitz today was staged. He's a smart forker and will use any means to get everyone to sway his way. SAS looked like a fool falling for some of that bit.

SAS was so pissed off with Wilbon earlier this evening on SC over this story, that they had to send him downstairs to sit with Bucher during the pregame several minutes ago.

Kobe isn't going anywhere, even if Mitch Kupchek is retained. Kobe costs way too damn much to move and if he gets traded, IIRC, he gets a $13 million bonus or incentive, courtesy of the Lakers as a parting gift. He has 4 years left on that fat contract.

 

[broadway joe]

Kobe is so full of shirt. He may not have run Shaq out of town, but does he really expect anyone to believe that the mutual hatred between him and Shaq had nothing to do with Shaq getting traded? Shaq wanted that humongous extension largely because he was in a power struggle with Kobe, and Buss did the only logical thing by choosing to go with Kobe because he had far more good years left in him than Shaq did. Kobe was fine with that at the time, because he wanted to be the man and because he thought he didn't need Shaq in order to keep contending for championships. He didn't listen to the people inside and outside the organization who told him that if he and Shaq could just learn to tolerate each other, they could keep winning titles. Now, because he's finally figured out that it is kind of helpful to have a 350-pound monster dominating the paint after all, and that it's no fun being the star of a mediocre team, he wants to bolt on the Lakers. Kobe had a great thing going and he forked it up because his ego was out of control. Now he wants to pretend that he had nothing to do with creating this mess. fork him.

Unless he gets traded to the Knicks, in which case I'm getting season tickets.

You said it all, man. Buss probably said what he said, but he likely doesn't say it/come to that decision without all the Kobe/Shaq acrimony. To pretend that this doesn't have anything to do with Buss' decision is ridiculous.

More drama with the Drama Queen. Kobe doesn't care about anything but Kobe. He wants out of the West because he's not going anywhere. You got what you wanted, Kobe, and now you want out. Weak.

Kobe to the Clippers. See how the fans treat him -- or how many Lakers fans become Clipper fans overnight.

Like the Lakers would ever trade him to the other team in The Staples Center.

fixed.

I think it's hilarious. I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. He'll change his mind. And he'll be a big baby again if he isn't averaging 35 shots a game even if the Lakers are winning.

Karma's a bench, mr. sexual assault. Deserves whatever he gets.

The Lakers should trade him to the Grizzlies so he's stuck in Memphis. I wonder how many big name players would want to play with him with his reputation anyway.

I always knew that, even if everything was laid out in front of us, and even if Shaq, Kobe and Buss all swore on Bibles their roles in the whole saga, idiots like you two would still let your hatred of Bryant cloud what's going on.
It's pointless to even read this thread, sometimes.

Gimpy, if you believe that the Kobe/Shaq relationship had nothing to do with Shaq being dealt, you're hopelessly naive. Kobe was the happiest man in L.A. the day Shaq got traded. Whether he directly orchestrated it or not, it was exactly what he wanted. Kobe had one of the best centers in NBA history on his team and he didn't want him. For him to turn around now and bench that he doesn't have enough talent around him is comical.

You, and the people like you, clinging to that belief is what's comical, man.
You have Shaq coming out and publicly backing Bryant in that it was Buss who orchestrated the trade of Shaq. Bryant openly admits they didn't get along, but also points out that they got along well enough to win three titles and would've continued to do so. Buss made the decision that Shaq wasn't worth the $80 million to keep (and I don't blame him, honestly). Was Bryant completely devastated by it? No. But to say he lobbied for it is oversimplifying what actually happened. Especially now, when Shaq is corroborating the story.

And, please, don't take this as a personal attack, just a friendly debate. I laughed when you ripped Kobe but then admitted you'd be first in line for season tickets. That was hilarious.

We're cool, Gimpy. Nothing personal. My thing is, it doesn't really matter whether Kobe ran Shaq out or just stood by and watched Buss make the decision. He believed that he could win without Shaq. He wanted that challenge. And now, because he found out that it's harder than he thought it would be, he wants to leave the Lakers holding the bag. He's complaining that he only re-signed with LA because they told him they would rebuild right away. Didn't he realize that sometimes rebuilding plans don't work? That there are no guarantees? Did he think the Lakers were somehow going to get him KG or Jermaine O'Neal or Carlos Boozer even though they had nothing worth trading? It's hard work putting together a championship caliber team. Kobe had one and didn't appreciate it. Instead of trying to take the easy way out and get himself traded, he should shut up, play hard and help the Lakers get back to that level.

Again, you're way off.
Kobe never even got the chance to try to have a succesful team because.......THEY NEVER GAVE HIM A TEAM. Think about this man. Ronny Turiaf and Smush Parker in your starting lineup? Tell me any other NBA team that would have those two on there. Name one.
Secondly, Boozer was a free agent so it had nothing to do with a trade. Kupchak said he didn't want to sign Boozer because(this one is special):

He didn't think he could guard other power forwards

And what about the Jason Kidd situation? He didn't want to pull the trade because:

He didn't want to get rid of ANDREW BYNUM.

I didn't even mention Baron Davis or KG.

All you're really saying is Kupchak made some bad moves. Oh well. Sucks for Kobe. How does that make his situation different from any other good player on a mediocre team? Should Ray Allen demand a trade? Kevin Garnett? Pau Gasol? There are lots of players who could complain that they don't have enough talent around them. Most of them would actually be more justified in bitching, because unlike Kobe, they didn't feud with the best teammate they ever had and help bring about his departure. The moment Shaq left, there was no guarantee that Kobe would ever play with a championship caliber supporting cast again. Unfortunately for him, his ego was too big for him to realize that. The bottom line is, if Kobe's looking for someone to blame for his situation, he should look in the mirror.

 

[Double Down]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why some people think that Kobe had any more to do with Shaq's departure that Shaq had to do with Shaq's departure. As much as Kobe hated Shaq's guts -- and if you want, I can give you 20 reasons why he had every right to hate Shaq's guts -- Kobe would have continued to play with him. Shaq wouldn't have continued to play with Kobe. Shaq sabataged their relationship, at minimum, an equal amount, and in reality, it was probably more like 70-30. That's where the raging Kobe hatred borders on delusion. Shaq smiles for the camera and makes such hi-larious jokes about people ("Tell Yao Ming I said, ching ching, chong chong!") and about celebrities he's forked ("I've had Serena Williams and Cindy Crawford") and the media laughs and tells us what a jolly fella he is, ignoring the fact that he weighed 400 pounds his final year in LA; refused to show up in shape every year because the offseason was "his time,"; was terrible during crunch time and didn't care; refused to play defense unless he was getting his "touches".

But keep telling yourself it was all Kobe's fault they had to break up that team because Kobe's ego couldn't handle it.

Shaq had every opportunity to do exactly what Kareem did when Magic came along. Kobe played second fiddle, just like Magic, until it was obvious the old center couldn't dominate anymore. Kareem, a man with no small ego, decided to step aside and let it become Magic's team. Kobe kept waiting, and waiting and waiting for that to happen, and Shaq refused. Shaq wanted to still be the The Man, even though he wasn't willing to work as hard as he did previously. And when Kobe said, "Screw it, I'm going to shoot more, I'm the one who has been working my ass off" Shaq started backstabbing him every chance he got.

Is Kobe a selfish person? Absolutely. Is he a creep and a coward? Yeah, maybe.

Was he singularly responsible for breaking up that dynasty? Absolutely not. But Shaq, to his credit, and with the help of some pretty simplistic thinking by some in the media, has made certain that's how it will be remembered. The Lakers had no choice but to ship Shaq out. And of course he got his ass in shape in Miami and then was willing to play second fiddle to Wade. That's just classic Shaq. And then, according to him, I sure he went home and banged Lucy Lu while his wife was at the grocery store. "Ching ching, chong chong, baby. ... Ching ching chong chong."

 

[GimpyScribe]

All you're really saying is Kupchak made some bad moves. Oh well. Sucks for Kobe. How does that make his situation different from any other good player on a mediocre team? Should Ray Allen demand a trade? Kevin Garnett? Pau Gasol? There are lots of players who could complain that they don't have enough talent around them. Most of them would actually be more justified in bitching, because unlike Kobe, they didn't feud with the best teammate they ever had and help bring about his departure. The moment Shaq left, there was no guarantee that Kobe would ever play with a championship caliber supporting cast again. Unfortunately for him, his ego was too big for him to realize that. The bottom line is, if Kobe's looking for someone to blame for his situation, he should look in the mirror.

I'm beginning to wonder if anyone else even listened to the interviews today. Bryant went out of his way to say that, while he is unhappy with the Lakers' current roster situation, that's NOT the reason he demanded the trade. He lost it because some supposed "insider" said that he drove Shaq out of L.A.
According to Stephen A. Smith, J.A. Adande and even Shaquille O'Neal himself, Bryant's version of what went down is accurate: the blame falls at the feet of Jerry Buss (not that a lot of you care about the actual facts). Bryant said that he didn't mind the media or fans saying he drove Shaq out of town because they aren't privy to the inside information. He said, though, when the Laker front office, which DOES know the truth, decided they were going to perpetuate that story, he decided he'd had enough.

But, again, why let actual facts get in the way of a good thread.