Should we "fight every day to save our democracy?"

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

OK, but this pandemic, if it even happened, is not nearly the nightmare it was (and remains) with a competent president in 2020. So much of the suffering never would have happened.

 

[tapintoamerica]

Had Hillary won in 2016, Trump could have run against her --- and beaten her --- in 2020 (they would have blamed her for COVID, and parties almost never win four consecutive terms). And we'd be dealing with an incumbent Trump today . . . with what democrat to challenge him?

100% correct. Perhaps some Democrat would have emerged as a viable candidate, but Trump would be POTUS right now, and he'd have done nothing to help mitigate the pandemic.

 

[dixiehack]

There were a bit more than 352,000 American Covid deaths in 2020. If President HRC had made a Herculean effort and reduced the toll by 90 percent, do you think right wing America was going to be sanguine about 35k dead on her watch and being asked to shelter in place? It's all you would hear about other than the weekly ashashination attempts.

 

[MisterCreosote]

The sad truth is this pandemic would've been a nightmare no matter who was president.

Yes, you wouldn't have had a leader who suggested drinking bleach on national teevee, and you wouldn't have half the country thinking the virus was made up to be mean to conservatives.

But no president would've been able to stop it from getting here and spreading like wildfire. And any president would've made the huge investment in vaccine development.

Everything else would've been frighteningly similar with a President Hillary.

Americans, by and large, would've still had no appetite for collective action/sacrifice, and would've still had a stunning lack of empathy.

 

[BTExpress]

Butter emails shutdowns.
Butter emails economy collapsing because of the shutdowns.
Butter emails 35K/135K/235K/335K/whatever deaths.

2020 was an incumbent's nightmare, just as 1932 was.

 

[Mr. X]

2020 was an incumbent's nightmare, just as 1932 was.

How many incumbent U.S. senators lost in 2020? How many House members?

How many incumbent U.S. senators lost in 2016? How many House members?

I'm asking because I think 2020 was a nightmare for the incumbent president, but not members of Congress.

 

[I Should Coco]

The sad truth is this pandemic would've been a nightmare no matter who was president.

Yes, you wouldn't have had a leader who suggested drinking bleach on national teevee, and you wouldn't have half the country thinking the virus was made up to be mean to conservatives.

But no president would've been able to stop it from getting here and spreading like wildfire. And any president would've made the huge investment in vaccine development.

Everything else would've been frighteningly similar with a President Hillary.

Americans, by and large, would've still had no appetite for collective action/sacrifice, and would've still had a stunning lack of empathy.

Not only that, but the original idea to prevent its spread -- wash down and disinfect everything you might touch > wearing masks -- would have been the wrong approach no matter who was president.

And you are right about Americans' appetite for sacrificing for others. See also: climate change, gun control, public transportation ...

 

[BTExpress]

I'm asking because I think 2020 was a nightmare for the incumbent president, but not members of Congress.

Sadly, there's no such thing as a bad year to be an incumbent member of Congress.

 

[Equalizer]

Trump should never have been a candidate.

By the time he rode down that escalator, he was long known to the press as a pathological liar and con artist, a subliterate punchline propped up by his father's money.

That he was ever taken seriously as a potential president by anyone in journalism is heartbreaking.

But he sold papers, so

View attachment 16195

He sold papers. He drove web traffic. And most importantly, he drove cable news ratings, and still does. CNN's coverage of an empty podium while waiting for Trump during the 2016 campaign was an embarrashment, and they would do it again in a heartbeat. A lot of media members saw their stars rise being the enemy of Trump (Jim Acosta, etc.), and they would gladly do it again.

And if you don't think they want him as the Republican candidate again, even with all of the criminal charges hanging over his head, you're not paying attention. I watched CNN yesterday on and off and just about every time I turned on there was a graphic saying how Trump "overshadowed" DeSantis at the Iowa State Fair. Trump stayed for less than an hour. DeSantis was there all day, and then went to the Knoxville Nationals that night, and drew a lot of attention from the crowds at both. A friend of mine was covering the whole day at the fair. He said people were laughing about Trump. But if you watched CNN, you got a different story.

They wanted him in 2016. They still want him in 2024. He's good for their business.

 

[Alma]

Americans, by and large, would've still had no appetite for collective action/sacrifice, and would've still had a stunning lack of empathy.

Americans have a ton of empathy. A ton. Relative to the world? A ton. Maybe not relative to you. But to the world?

 

[Azrael]

They wanted him in 2016. They still want him in 2024. He's good for their business.

darn liberal media

 

[MisterCreosote]

Americans have a ton of empathy. A ton. Relative to the world? A ton. Maybe not relative to you. But to the world?

Nope. Wrong.

Especially when it came to the pandemic.