So if Torre stays...(a journalism question)

[JackS]

I'm not newspaper historian enough to know, but I have to believe this was common back in the day when there were five papers in a place like Boston, and seven in Chicago. We only see it in NYC because it's one of the few cities that has four newspapers independent of each other that compete.
"Every major story has been botched" in the past few years by "the media."
Still can't wait for that book.

You're not gonna like hearing this, but that sounds like a Bernie Goldberg book.

 

[Cosmo]

Boy, that's a real slippery slope there Nathan. In a way, I understand what you're saying. But we're not in the business of producing gossipy rumors and passing them off as fact, especially considering that most papers break their news on the web now instead of print.

I would be completely in favor of hedging on an non-life-or-death report that's unconfirmed. You wouldn't label it as real news or treat it as real news. You might have a well-connected columnist write "here's what we're hearing" just so you can prove to the readers that you're on top of things. If you say nothing, you look like you missed the story.

I would never sanction this approach for something important like whether Lidle was on that plane or even anything unconfirmed from a player's personal life. But informed analysis of coaching changes, trade rumors, etc., are the kind of stuff that makes it worth it to me to read the paper. (A good feature or analytical piece is cool too.) But game stories, rewritten press releases and official transaction reports are pointless when I can get all that on my own.

That makes sense.

 

[Frank_Ridgeway]

You might have a well-connected columnist write "here's what we're hearing" just so you can prove to the readers that you're on top of things.

Anyone can do that, though, even someone who doesn't cover the team. The whole point of having a Bill Madden on staff making Bill Madden money is that 1.) he has the sources to give you something more definitive than that, and 2.) he has been writing about Steinbrenner since the 1970s and should know better than anyone what to take seriously and what to think is just Steinbrenner blowing off steam.

 

[Oz]

Then have GEORGE FUCKING STEINBRENNER go on the record and say it. Don't speculate when the source can still change his mind and thus change the story, making you look foolish when they come to the press conference.

That might work for you in East Bum Fuck with some Division 3 athletic director, Oz.

But if you're the baseball columnist for the NY Daily News and Steinbrenner (or his mouthpiece) calls you and goes into a rant on Torre you have two choices -- write it or start looking for a new job.

You see, children, NY readers and fans understand how the tabloid game is played far better than those of you in East Bum Fuck do.

My problem is this -- NY media sets the table for this story, and everyone else follows. That includes us in East Bum Fuck who don't give a damn about the Yankees. So then we have to run that story for the next three days and then, in the end, it's much ado about nothing and the Torre press conference where we learn he's staying runs on C4 because no one cares after the rumors don't come to pass.

If you're going to get the scoop, get it right.

Just don't write, "Believe it. This time, faster than you can say 'Goodbye, Joe. Welcome back, Lou,' there will be." If there is still any doubt, use "could" as opposed to "will." Don't tell us it's a certainly when it's not. And that's my problem with this. I could care less if Steinbrenner is the source, if there's any reason to doubt, say it could happen. And you know he still would have had the scoop just by saying that much.

 

[Bubbler]

Oz, this wasn't rumor as truth, the report was right at the time with the owner as the source. Then, the news changed.

It happens.

However, the notion that the NY media sets the table isn't the fault of the NY media, that's the fault of media organizations elsewhere who let them take the lead. In our case, we didn't let the Torre story drive our train, we reported it when something definitive happened.

We're under no obligation to go crazy with something just because the NY media and ESPN did.

 

[Oz]

Bubbler, when I said NY media set the table, I meant in this specific story. I don't mean for my paper or anyone else's.

 

[spnited]

Thank you Bubbler.
I'm done with this ridiculous argument.

 

[tenacious_g]

I'll offer my small-time, East Bum Fuck take and wait for spnited to let me know how wrong I am because I don't live in New York...

Original story was fine. The writer was confident in the source. ESPN and the rest of the world should not have run as they did without their own hordes of baseball reporters and on-air talent putting their necks on the line with some independent confirmation. I do agree that the DN taking all the blame in this is wrong. They may have been the source of the original story, which turned out to be wrong, but they actually were the only ones who did the unthinkable... get the info themselves. A change of heart makes them look bad, but I actaully think the ESPNs and other national media outlets are the ones who conveniently blew this story up without ever facing the consequences of possibly being wrong themselves.

And before you say it smnited, I am never in favor of outing a source, regardless of whether their info is right or wrong. If a reporter decides to use the source, it becomes his baby and his responsibility. He writes it, he better stand by it and never out the source. But he needs to be responsible about future use of that source. I know in the other posts you made it clear, though, that New York media need not excercise responsible journalsim because the radio callers all get how the game is played there, right?

 

[Baba_Booey]

Spnited,
Just because you work at a paper that's closer to NYC than some others does not mean you know the ins and outs of the New York tabs. You're way off on some of what you've asserted in your posts.

 

[Heywood Jablome]

Thanks, Lugnuts.

I think that kind of stuff too much for my own good, I guess. But it's scary the way this industry has been going for more than a few years now.