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a reporter's reporter

jgmacg said:
21 said:
jgmacg said:
henryhecht said:
jcmacg - you are the first to play the race card in this discussion - i guess it was inevitable - every discussion about the NBA comes back to race. when most of the players are black, and most of the writers are white, most of the time white guys will be writing about black guys. law of probability.

I'm hardly playing the "race card." I'm asking whether or not these specific kinds of stories bother anyone but me given the demographic you describe.

Consider this though - there are plenty of white serial philanderers in the big leagues. How much and how often do we hear about them?

Neither Canzano nor anyone on this thread said anything about black athletes. Could someone let jmac know that there are a bunch of white guys in big-time sports (as well as the NBA), and they like blondes too.

I'm sure this sentence simply escaped your notice.

I'm sorry, I will type more slowly for you.

NO ONE WAS TALKING ABOUT RACE BEFORE YOU INTERJECTED IT. NEITHER CANZANO NOR ANYONE COMMENTING ON THE BLONDE. YOU MADE THE LEAP FROM "NBA PLAYERS HAVING SEX IN HOTEL ROOMS" TO "BUT WHITE GUYS SCREW AROUND TOO!"

IN OTHER WORDS, YOU--NO ONE ELSE--MADE THE ASSUMPTION THAT THIS WAS ABOUT BLACK GUYS.

I can use a larger font if it will help.
 
jgmacg said:
awriter -

The problem with the slippery slope you describe, is that it's slippery for us, as well. Young, sexually vigorous men have always viewed women as targets of opportunity. To say otherwise is to deny the most basic impulse of the species. And young women, happily for equal rights, are now free to view men the same way. That there's going to be lots of sex in any sports environment, pro or not, is thus a given. And to refer to this sort of behavior as "twisted" reveals more about the speaker than about the behavior.

If these appetites rise to the level of the Vikings' sex cruise, or Kobe's Colorado problem - in other words, a violation of the law - then it's news and worthy of our attentions. Until then, though, it's really none of our business. We're not nannies.

A couple things.
Not all young men see women as sex objects and vice versa, even in this age of equal rights. And I realize there's no law prohibiting anyone from having consensual sex. And I don't think consensual sex is "twisted." If Canzano does, that's his opinion.
Beyond that, I think he was making a similar point to the one I made in the previous post, which is these players are inviting trouble. And the episodes involving Randolph and the Jazz are examples of that. I don't think it's a stretch to say that too many players treat women as nothing more than sex objects, and it leads to trouble for them, whether they're breaking the law or not.
 
21 said:
jgmacg said:
21 said:
jgmacg said:
henryhecht said:
jcmacg - you are the first to play the race card in this discussion - i guess it was inevitable - every discussion about the NBA comes back to race. when most of the players are black, and most of the writers are white, most of the time white guys will be writing about black guys. law of probability.

I'm hardly playing the "race card." I'm asking whether or not these specific kinds of stories bother anyone but me given the demographic you describe.

Consider this though - there are plenty of white serial philanderers in the big leagues. How much and how often do we hear about them?

Neither Canzano nor anyone on this thread said anything about black athletes. Could someone let jmac know that there are a bunch of white guys in big-time sports (as well as the NBA), and they like blondes too.

I'm sure this sentence simply escaped your notice.

I'm sorry, I will type more slowly for you.

NO ONE WAS TALKING ABOUT RACE BEFORE YOU INTERJECTED IT. NEITHER CANZANO NOR ANYONE COMMENTING ON THE BLONDE. YOU MADE THE LEAP FROM "NBA PLAYERS HAVING SEX IN HOTEL ROOMS" TO "BUT WHITE GUYS SCREW AROUND TOO!"

IN OTHER WORDS, YOU--NO ONE ELSE--MADE THE ASSUMPTION THAT THIS WAS ABOUT BLACK GUYS.

I can use a larger font if it will help.

I made no assumptions. I asked a rhetorical question. Why not go back and read the post in which I originally posed the question? Thanks.
 
awriter said:
jgmacg said:
awriter -

The problem with the slippery slope you describe, is that it's slippery for us, as well. Young, sexually vigorous men have always viewed women as targets of opportunity. To say otherwise is to deny the most basic impulse of the species. And young women, happily for equal rights, are now free to view men the same way. That there's going to be lots of sex in any sports environment, pro or not, is thus a given. And to refer to this sort of behavior as "twisted" reveals more about the speaker than about the behavior.

If these appetites rise to the level of the Vikings' sex cruise, or Kobe's Colorado problem - in other words, a violation of the law - then it's news and worthy of our attentions. Until then, though, it's really none of our business. We're not nannies.

A couple things.
Not all young men see women as sex objects and vice versa, even in this age of equal rights. And I realize there's no law prohibiting anyone from having consensual sex. And I don't think consensual sex is "twisted." If Canzano does, that's his opinion.
Beyond that, I think he was making a similar point to the one I made in the previous post, which is these players are inviting trouble. And the episodes involving Randolph and the Jazz are examples of that. I don't think it's a stretch to say that too many players treat women as nothing more than sex objects, and it leads to trouble for them, whether they're breaking the law or not.

I completely agree. It's a serious subject worthy of serious discussion. I just don't think the story about the blonde is part of that discussion.
 
Alma said:
I just want to get this right...a reporter's reporter is the guy who navigates his way through the grapevine to tell the story of Blonde Q. slug's trip through revolving hotel doors...because that's what Joe Fan and kids demand!

Sorry, folks, but there is a chasm between what people want or need to know about sports, and what journalists feel compelled -for the community's sake, of course - to pursue as news.

Agree Alma - there was a beat writer back in the early 80's covering the Yankees for The NY Post. It seemed like he was more interested in reporting the escapades of Billy Martin and crew than reporting on the games. Yankee fans much prefered reading about the games and not the off the field stuff.
 
Boom_70 said:
Alma said:
I just want to get this right...a reporter's reporter is the guy who navigates his way through the grapevine to tell the story of Blonde Q. slug's trip through revolving hotel doors...because that's what Joe Fan and kids demand!

Sorry, folks, but there is a chasm between what people want or need to know about sports, and what journalists feel compelled -for the community's sake, of course - to pursue as news.

Agree Alma - there was a beat writer back in the early 80's covering the Yankees for The NY Post. It seemed like he was more interested in reporting the escapades of Billy Martin and crew than reporting on the games. Yankee fans much prefered reading about the games and not the off the field stuff.

oh, did you poll them? that's a broad generality.
 
henryhecht said:
Boom_70 said:
Alma said:
I just want to get this right...a reporter's reporter is the guy who navigates his way through the grapevine to tell the story of Blonde Q. slug's trip through revolving hotel doors...because that's what Joe Fan and kids demand!

Sorry, folks, but there is a chasm between what people want or need to know about sports, and what journalists feel compelled -for the community's sake, of course - to pursue as news.

Agree Alma - there was a beat writer back in the early 80's covering the Yankees for The NY Post. It seemed like he was more interested in reporting the escapades of Billy Martin and crew than reporting on the games. Yankee fans much prefered reading about the games and not the off the field stuff.

oh, did you poll them? that's a broad generality.

Well most broads liked to be polled. I've polled a few in my time.
 
jgmacg said:
awriter said:
jgmacg said:
awriter -

The problem with the slippery slope you describe, is that it's slippery for us, as well. Young, sexually vigorous men have always viewed women as targets of opportunity. To say otherwise is to deny the most basic impulse of the species. And young women, happily for equal rights, are now free to view men the same way. That there's going to be lots of sex in any sports environment, pro or not, is thus a given. And to refer to this sort of behavior as "twisted" reveals more about the speaker than about the behavior.

If these appetites rise to the level of the Vikings' sex cruise, or Kobe's Colorado problem - in other words, a violation of the law - then it's news and worthy of our attentions. Until then, though, it's really none of our business. We're not nannies.

A couple things.
Not all young men see women as sex objects and vice versa, even in this age of equal rights. And I realize there's no law prohibiting anyone from having consensual sex. And I don't think consensual sex is "twisted." If Canzano does, that's his opinion.
Beyond that, I think he was making a similar point to the one I made in the previous post, which is these players are inviting trouble. And the episodes involving Randolph and the Jazz are examples of that. I don't think it's a stretch to say that too many players treat women as nothing more than sex objects, and it leads to trouble for them, whether they're breaking the law or not.

I completely agree. It's a serious subject worthy of serious discussion. I just don't think the story about the blonde is part of that discussion.

The blonde story is the perfect example of that! Do you have some personal issue with Canzano or The Oregonian? Do you work for the Blazers or represent any of the players?
 
awriter said:
The blonde story is the perfect example of that! Do you have some personal issue with Canzano or The Oregonian? Do you work for the Blazers or represent any of the players?

The level of paranoia on this thread is breathtaking. I don't know Canzano, don't read the Oregonian, don't watch basketball, don't have a vested interest here in anything other than the practice and craft of journalism.

I first posted on this thread because it struck me fishy that 24 hours after Canzano got spanked by his own paper, a new thread begins, referring to him as a "reporter's reporter." Okay, sometimes folks come here to blow their own horn, or rehabilitate their own image, or simply defend themselves behind a screen name. Perfectly fair given the nature of SportsJournalists.com.

Every post I've made here refers simply to the interview he gave. I clicked the link, read the Q & A, and posted my thoughts about it. That Canzano knows how to use a Reverse Phone Directory, or file an FOIA request, or has sources in his own community is admirable, but not, to me, necessarily worthy of note. As others have said in this thread, all those things are, or should be, pretty standard weapons in a reporter's arsenal.

And I agree completely with Alma when I question the use of those weapons in service of the story about the blonde.

Again, that an individual makes a consensual decision to accompany a player to a hotel and have sex with him, does not, to me, rise to the level of news. Nor is it a strong illustration of Canzano's larger argument about the "twisted culture" of the NBA. Here's the quote from his column:

The next day, just before tip-off, a taxi pulled up to the steps of the Rose Garden. A twentysomething blonde slipped out of the taxi and headed toward Will Call, where she collected a complimentary ticket and came through the turnstiles.

She told me she had been flown from Seattle to Portland by one of the Lakers players and had spent the night in his hotel room. She then explained, "The hotel doors of the other players were swinging open and closed all night there were so many different women coming in and out."

It's a scene that goes down all the time in the twisted culture of the NBA.


The NBA, may, in fact, be an alarmingly twisted culture. But one woman making an individual decision to have consensual sex with a ballplayer is hardly the evidence Canzano needs to prove a larger pattern, a cultural pattern, of disrespect to women. That it sounds like several women made the same consensual decision that night in that hotel in fact undermines Canzano's own argument.

And as to whether or not this kind of promiscuity might "invite trouble", as you suggest, I would say of course it does - in some cases. But is it our job to write about what "might" happen? Or should we be writing about what has happened? Again, consensual sex is not news.

I'm not disagreeing with his premise. Professional and collegiate athletes in sports of all kinds in all markets show us time and again that there's an embedded disrespect for women in the male-dominated sports world. And there are lots of ways to write that story.

I'm just saying that this story about this specific blonde doesn't bolster Canzano's argument. In fact, it reads more like easy salaciousness - or, as was said earlier in the thread - another example of "sex sells."
 

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