David Simon's lament in Esquire: "A newspaper can't love you back."

[gridiron]

Glad to see all the love for The Wire around here. I've been telling people about that show since the beginning. They universally come back to me thanking me profusely for turning them on to it. I can't watch Law and Order, CSI and the like anymore. They just bore me. I'd even venture to say that, as far as HBO efforts go, The Wire is better than anything else they've put out -- The Sopranos included.

When I found out the creator was a newspaper guy, it made so much sense. That's why it is the realest show on television.

 

[BertoltBrecht]

And worse still, in the newsroom where I grew up -- a semi-intellectual environment where everyone once seemed to be arguing about everything all the time without actually impairing their careers -- dissent will become problematic.

This is the personal part.

Because the new way of doing business apparently leaves no place in the newsroom for fundamental disagreements about content, about reportage, about the substance of what we are doing or not doing. Arguments over quotidian matters such as the slant of Mideast coverage, or an ethical debate over attribution, or the use and overuse of a stylistic device will soon bring transfers and demotions until, finally, an exodus begins.

I hope it isn't like this everywhere. Tell me it's not.

 

[BRoth]

And worse still, in the newsroom where I grew up -- a semi-intellectual environment where everyone once seemed to be arguing about everything all the time without actually impairing their careers -- dissent will become problematic.

This is the personal part.

Because the new way of doing business apparently leaves no place in the newsroom for fundamental disagreements about content, about reportage, about the substance of what we are doing or not doing. Arguments over quotidian matters such as the slant of Mideast coverage, or an ethical debate over attribution, or the use and overuse of a stylistic device will soon bring transfers and demotions until, finally, an exodus begins.

I hope it isn't like this everywhere. Tell me it's not.

We got a stern talking to recently from one of the editors because the publisher had been watching people in the newsroom. Apparently he was upset that people were having conversations with each other which he clocked. The publisher then said that those are 5, 10, 15, 20 minute increments that we could've been working instead of "just talking" with other staffers.

 

[BertoltBrecht]

And worse still, in the newsroom where I grew up -- a semi-intellectual environment where everyone once seemed to be arguing about everything all the time without actually impairing their careers -- dissent will become problematic.

This is the personal part.

Because the new way of doing business apparently leaves no place in the newsroom for fundamental disagreements about content, about reportage, about the substance of what we are doing or not doing. Arguments over quotidian matters such as the slant of Mideast coverage, or an ethical debate over attribution, or the use and overuse of a stylistic device will soon bring transfers and demotions until, finally, an exodus begins.

I hope it isn't like this everywhere. Tell me it's not.

We got a stern talking to recently from one of the editors because the publisher had been watching people in the newsroom. Apparently he was upset that people were having conversations with each other which he clocked. The publisher then said that those are 5, 10, 15, 20 minute increments that we could've been working instead of "just talking" with other staffers.

Well, including my old place and your place and Simon's Sun, that's only three. I mean that's no big deal, right?

 

[Ben_Hecht]

Glad to see all the love for The Wire around here. I've been telling people about that show since the beginning. They universally come back to me thanking me profusely for turning them on to it. I can't watch Law and Order, CSI and the like anymore. They just bore me. I'd even venture to say that, as far as HBO efforts go, The Wire is better than anything else they've put out -- The Sopranos included.

When I found out the creator was a newspaper guy, it made so much sense. That's why it is the realest show on television.

I liked The Sopranos a good deal . . . on a 1-10 scale, rate it a strong 8 1/2.

The episodic styling of The Sopranos begat Deadwood, The Wire (and Mad Men, too, for that matter . . . ).

Without the example of The Sopranos, none of the other shows mentioned exist, in their past/current form.

That said . . . The Wire is a spectacular achievement. It's more consistently-gripping than either The Sopranos or Deadwood, and that's saying something.

 

[Boobie Miles]

Glad to see all the love for The Wire around here. I've been telling people about that show since the beginning. They universally come back to me thanking me profusely for turning them on to it. I can't watch Law and Order, CSI and the like anymore. They just bore me. I'd even venture to say that, as far as HBO efforts go, The Wire is better than anything else they've put out -- The Sopranos included.

When I found out the creator was a newspaper guy, it made so much sense. That's why it is the realest show on television.

Agreed 100% on the Law and Order thing. That shows resolves in 40 minutes what takes 13 hours to do on The Wire, and I mean that as a compliment to The Wire. As for the Sopranos, it was my favorite show, until The Wire. The thing about The Wire is it doesn't waste time with frivolous stuff the way Sopranos did.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

Glad to see all the love for The Wire around here. I've been telling people about that show since the beginning. They universally come back to me thanking me profusely for turning them on to it. I can't watch Law and Order, CSI and the like anymore. They just bore me. I'd even venture to say that, as far as HBO efforts go, The Wire is better than anything else they've put out -- The Sopranos included.

When I found out the creator was a newspaper guy, it made so much sense. That's why it is the realest show on television.

Agreed 100% on the Law and Order thing. That shows resolves in 40 minutes what takes 13 hours to do on The Wire, and I mean that as a compliment to The Wire. As for the Sopranos, it was my favorite show, until The Wire. The thing about The Wire is it doesn't waste time with frivolous stuff the way Sopranos did.

The Sopranos' timewasting/padding was frequently quite fun (especially when it played off individual characters' quirks) . . . but it sometimes got out of hand.

 

[Pulitzer Wannabe]

Glad to see all the love for The Wire around here. I've been telling people about that show since the beginning. They universally come back to me thanking me profusely for turning them on to it. I can't watch Law and Order, CSI and the like anymore. They just bore me. I'd even venture to say that, as far as HBO efforts go, The Wire is better than anything else they've put out -- The Sopranos included.

When I found out the creator was a newspaper guy, it made so much sense. That's why it is the realest show on television.

Agreed 100% on the Law and Order thing. That shows resolves in 40 minutes what takes 13 hours to do on The Wire, and I mean that as a compliment to The Wire. As for the Sopranos, it was my favorite show, until The Wire. The thing about The Wire is it doesn't waste time with frivolous stuff the way Sopranos did.

The Sopranos' timewasting/padding was frequently quite fun (especially when it played off individual characters' quirks) . . . but it sometimes got out of hand.

Explain?

I've only watched the first three episodes or so of The Wire from Season 1 - I bought it because of all the great stuff I've heard about it. At least so far, it doesn't seem as rich as "The Sopranos." Good and gritty, but I'm not feeling the emotional connection to the characters. I mean, those "Sopranos" guys were so pitch-perfect and wonderfully drawn and cast.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

In The Sopranos, they beat certain things to death . . . AJ's immaturity . . .
Janice's whining, manipulative self-centeredness (if anyone needed to be offed in that series, it was that bench) . . .

The first half of the final season (VI/Part I) was almost pure filler . . . as if
Chase was ready to wind it up after V, and knew how he wanted to wind it up, but was compelled to meander around a good while, first . . .

 

[Boobie Miles]

Glad to see all the love for The Wire around here. I've been telling people about that show since the beginning. They universally come back to me thanking me profusely for turning them on to it. I can't watch Law and Order, CSI and the like anymore. They just bore me. I'd even venture to say that, as far as HBO efforts go, The Wire is better than anything else they've put out -- The Sopranos included.

When I found out the creator was a newspaper guy, it made so much sense. That's why it is the realest show on television.

Agreed 100% on the Law and Order thing. That shows resolves in 40 minutes what takes 13 hours to do on The Wire, and I mean that as a compliment to The Wire. As for the Sopranos, it was my favorite show, until The Wire. The thing about The Wire is it doesn't waste time with frivolous stuff the way Sopranos did.

The Sopranos' timewasting/padding was frequently quite fun (especially when it played off individual characters' quirks) . . . but it sometimes got out of hand.

Explain?

I've only watched the first three episodes or so of The Wire from Season 1 - I bought it because of all the great stuff I've heard about it. At least so far, it doesn't seem as rich as "The Sopranos." Good and gritty, but I'm not feeling the emotional connection to the characters. I mean, those "Sopranos" guys were so pitch-perfect and wonderfully drawn and cast.

I'm not going to knock the Sopranos. It's probably my second favorite show ever. But I don't think it's fair to say that about The Wire after only three episodes. The show is far more driven by the themes and stories than individual characters, but there is still plenty of exposition. Come back after the first season and then see if you don't have strong feelings about McNulty, Bubs, Omar, D'Angelo, Wallace, to name a few. I'm guessing your opinion will have changed.

 

[Double Down]

Three episodes of The Wire vs. eighty one episodes of The Sopranos?

Kind of an unfair fight.

 

[STLIrish]

Glad to see all the love for The Wire around here. I've been telling people about that show since the beginning. They universally come back to me thanking me profusely for turning them on to it. I can't watch Law and Order, CSI and the like anymore. They just bore me. I'd even venture to say that, as far as HBO efforts go, The Wire is better than anything else they've put out -- The Sopranos included.

When I found out the creator was a newspaper guy, it made so much sense. That's why it is the realest show on television.

Agreed 100% on the Law and Order thing. That shows resolves in 40 minutes what takes 13 hours to do on The Wire, and I mean that as a compliment to The Wire. As for the Sopranos, it was my favorite show, until The Wire. The thing about The Wire is it doesn't waste time with frivolous stuff the way Sopranos did.

The Sopranos' timewasting/padding was frequently quite fun (especially when it played off individual characters' quirks) . . . but it sometimes got out of hand.

but I'm not feeling the emotional connection to the characters.

Give it a few more episodes, and you will.