Does anyone still think Manning is better than Brady?

[zagoshe]

Can you say Manning even had a chance at a second ring?

If the Playboy bunny's boyfriend fields an onside kick, he almost assuredly wins one against the Saints.

And it is hilarious to me - "the Patriots defense melted down in the second half against the Colts" as if Manning didn't have something to do with that and more importantly, the Patriots blew an 18-point lead because they couldn't get enough first downs and sustain drives in the second half --- and I guess it was the defense that threw that interception at the end of the game. My bad.

 

[outofplace]

Against Rex Grossman and the Chicago Bears.
If the Patriots' defense doesn't implode against the Colts in that second half of that AFC title game, Brady gets ring #4 easily right there.
They were flat-out beaten by the Giants in SB42 but they were the better team in the second Giants SB game.
My point is, a play here or a play there and Brady could be on his way to competing for his seventh ring. Can you say Manning even had a chance at a second ring?

And with a few plays the other way, the Patriots are battling for first or second championship against the Seahawks. Each Super Bowl victory was by three points. Look at the entire run in 2001. The tuck rule saved them from a game they should have lost to the Raiders, then they need a pair of special teams scores to get by the Steelers before pulling out the Super Bowl victory with a field goal as time ran out.

Point being, if you are going to play that game, you have to be honest with yourself and realize how easily things could have swung in the other direction.

 

[zagoshe]

Oh goodness, I actually agree with OOP - although predictably he had to work in that Steelers reference.

But he raises a good point - how many does Brady have if his kicker is Vanderchoke instead of Vinatari those early years?

 

[JimmyHoward33]

Why is it that every time Tom Brady does something good the first instinct of his fans is to bash Peyton Manning? Was it like this for Magic Johnson....each Lakers title was "See Larry can't do that" Everytime the Blackhawks win a Cup do their fans spend hours saying "See Toews is better than Crosby"?

Fans should be able to just enjoy Brady without making every little thing about finding ways to claim Manning is no good. I've never understood why people have to pick Brady or Manning. I like them both. They're not mutually exclusive.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Why is it that every time Tom Brady does something good the first instinct of his fans is to bash Peyton Manning?

It's an off-shoot of the Red Sox finally winning the World Series. The 10-year douche parade that set off is one of the worst things to ever happen in sports.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Lawrence Tynes ✔ @lt4kicks
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The Pats have learned to celebrate the heck out of those AFC Championships because the know what comes 2 weeks later. #0-2inGlendale

 

[Beef03]

But he raises a good point - how many does Brady have if his kicker is Vanderchoke instead of Vinatari those early years?

The other thing Brady has had going for him for most of his career is a damn good defence. For most of Manning's career the Colts were terrible on defence -- a few years they were pretty good but that was the exception rather than the rule -- and couldn't protect a lead in big games. He may have had more weapons on offence than Brady but the saying is "Defence wins championships" for a reason.

As a career overview, I still grade Manning out a little higher, but it is whisker close. If you put them head to head right now, it's no question who is the better quarterback is in the present -- Brady -- rather than over the course of their careers.

And regarding his one Super Bowl ring that people want to discount because it came against Rex Grossman, it also came against the NFL's fifth ranked defence in yards and third ranked in points and featured three pro bowlers. Meanwhile, their special teams also had three pro bowlers. They beat a damn good team in the Super Bowl, one that finished an NFC best 13-3. They didn't just steamroll a team that was lucky to be there. That was a well earned ring by Manning.

 

[JC]

Against Rex Grossman and the Chicago Bears.
If the Patriots' defense doesn't implode against the Colts in that second half of that AFC title game, Brady gets ring #4 easily right there.
They were flat-out beaten by the Giants in SB42 but they were the better team in the second Giants SB game.
My point is, a play here or a play there and Brady could be on his way to competing for his seventh ring. Can you say Manning even had a chance at a second ring?

I love when people discount his SB win because it came against Grossman. They had to beat the Pats to get there, does that not count?

 

[RecoveringJournalist]

Manning was surrounded by better offensive players. Far better.

And don't forget the soon-to-be HOF coach he played for much of his career.

Dungy, Hall-of-Famer or not, is one of the most overrated coaches in NFL history. Belichick is a top 5 all-time coach and I doubt anybody would even argue that.

But, yes given the way this season and off-season have unfolded, Brady appears to have the upper hand in the debate.

 

[BTExpress]

Early in his career, Brady also benefitted from the same thing Russell Wilson is benefitting from: As a late draft pick, they were paid little, and thus their teams had much more salary freedom to surround them with great players.

Once the $15 million-$20 million salaries start kicking in, the QBs find that ring a little more exclusive because GMs find it much harder to surround them with championship-caliber talent. Can be done, of course, but the margin is razor thin.

What was the difference in the Patriots defense that held the Greatest Show on Turf to 17 points and the one that "imploded" against Manning a few years later? Several millions of dollars . . . that went to Brady.

No matter how much better Wilson becomes as a QB, his best Super Bowl window will be no bigger than these past two seasons.

 

[RecoveringJournalist]

I love when people discount his SB win because it came against Grossman. They had to beat the Pats to get there, does that not count?

It's funny, because I've heard the argument about Dungy and Canton is that he only had to beat one of his former minions to win his lone title.

 

[RecoveringJournalist]

My frustration with Manning is what people usually trumpet as one of the most impressive parts of his career. He needs to let someone else call the plays. I think if he let others call the plays and he just played, his career might have had more postseason success.