30 for 30 running thread

[Small Town Guy]

Ragu, I thought that we didn't really learn anything about him.

He was a gambler and a big spender. The stuff about his conviction and what he did in Vegas afterwards was a bit confusing (was he a gambler, a PR man and oddmaker or some combination).

The insider stuff about NFL today was probably the best stuff in the documentary.

I would think his uncle killing his mother and aunt (when he could have been with them) was very interesting.

It was certainly an interesting fact, but I didn't really get how it helped shape the man.

True.

An hour probably was too little time if you really dig into the sportsbook/Vegas stuff, his childhood, CBS, his funeral, his family and deaths of his children.

Maybe cut out the personal stuff and focus on bookmaking and CBS?

I liked the personal stuff so I glad they included that. Since Deford was used in it, I'll use him as an example. If this was a Deford takeout piece, the stuff about his mother and aunt would have certainly been included as part of the psychological profiling that always goes on in those stories. Certainly in a 60-minute documentary you can't delve into it as deeply as you would in an 8,000-word magazine story, but I think the documentary would have suffered without it. That might also be because I was unaware of almost all of his personal background. If I had more knowledge of that previously, I might have wanted more focus on the NFL Today/controversy, etc.

 

[Lugnuts]

Were the parts read by "The Greek" just written script? Excerpts from an autobiography?

I think I heard or read somewhere that those tracks were written specifically for the film by a former CBS writer who had worked with The Greek.

I was absolutely riveted.

Of course, all the topics covered were of particular interest to me-- sports broadcasting, gambling, Vegas-- even genetic disease is something that I've had to deal with (though, thanks to modern technology, we've been spared the tragedy Greek had to go through. Which hit me, because if Greek had been having kids today, he might have had one child with CF, then would've had the option for IVF with genetic screening for subsequent kids.)

The actor voice was jarring to me at first. But I thought the way the film was edited mitigated a lot of it. For example, the film starts with the story about the brawl - great hook. Then you have a little bit of natural sound and music-- a breather-- then a short track from the actor comes in-- followed by another second or two of natural sound with music. I think it gave the viewer time to process what he just heard: "Whose voice is that? Jimmy The Greek's dead. Must be an actor. Hmm. I don't know if I'm going to like this or not.".... And during that 'processing' time you haven't missed anything. I still found the actor voice jarring until about midway through. Then my brain seemed to accept it and not think about it anymore.

The film was beautifully edited, and I noticed the same editor did Muhammed and Larry, which was also well-edited.

But Fritz Mitchell, the director, has done some great, meticulous stuff... The deck Schaap doc, a doc on fly-fishing that actually won a Peabody (more like a Pulitzer than an Emmy)... and this Greek project just tops it all in my book.

It was my favorite of the films so far... but I haven't seen USFL yet.

 

[Suicide Squeezer]

Can you watch these online yet? I haven't caught any since the first two and want to catch up. I tried briefly on ESPN.com's video section, but got nothin.

 

[Stoney]

It was interesting, but using the actor to voice over fictionalized words really turned me off. I wish they'd scrapped that stunt.

People forget what a groundbreaking move it was to put a professional gambler (and convicted felon) in that studio at a time when discussion of betting was strictly forbidden and, until then, network sports coverage had essentially pretended like it didn't exist. That decision took some stones, especially for an institition as established and conservative as 1970s CBS, and helped bring sports gambling into the accepted world. I remember as a little kid being baffled at to why the Greek was considered the big football expert if he'd never played, coached or written about the game, and the darn grownups wouldn't explain it to me. Took me a while to catch on.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

Did not like the Greek voice over. Didn't think it added much of anything to the story.

Deford was great as usual. I thought Phyllis George's comments were especially insightful.

The most interesting piece to me was the mention that he bet everything he had on a single game (several times I believe). That takes such major balls to do that.

 

[Small Town Guy]

Did not like the Greek voice over. Didn't think it added much of anything to the story.

Deford was great as usual. I thought Phyllis George's comments were especially insightful.

The most interesting piece to me was the mention that he bet everything he had on a single game (several times I believe). That takes such major balls to do that.

And I think one of his kid's last quotes summed up the end result pretty well. He lost every penny he ever made, he said, so I'm ashuming there was nothing left behind for the kid, especially if Jimmy was basically panhandling his buddy at that dinner shortly before he died.

 

[Lugnuts]

Can you watch these online yet? I haven't caught any since the first two and want to catch up. I tried briefly on ESPN.com's video section, but got nothin.

A few of them seem to be available on iTunes.

 

[D-3 Fan]

Agreed, Webster. Was waiting for the film to get to the controversy of his firing -- which was the whole point of doing a Jimmy the Greek episode, no? -- and it took about 40 minutes to get there. Kind of a letdown.

And yeah, the "voice-over" was too awkward. Hearty swing, but still a swing and miss.

I read somewhere that Fritz Mitchell debated heavily whether or not to add the voice-over of someone speaking as Jimmy. After a long while, he decided to go ahead and add the voice-over. Mitchell could have went the other way as well, because he was torn 50/50 about the decision.

Ragu, that is a well-written explanation of why it wasn't necessary to rehash the MLK comments. This was about the life of Jimmy The Greek and how he became the man he is.

As a kid, I watched the The Greek because I wanted to see who he picked to win, which was one of the reasons I started watching sports, namely football. I wanted to know more about Jimmy besides the NFL Today and the comments. This documentary got my attention in more ways than I could imagined. Brent was correct at the beginning: Jimmy The Greek was a tragic figure.

 

[Bubbler]

I thought it was awesome. I liked the voiceover, gave it a kind of Goodfellas-ish sheen to it.

I'm old enough to remember how iconic NFL Today was in the 70s. It was the first sports show (along with This Week In Baseball) I remember watching religiously, and by religiously, I mean, I wanted to miss church to see it.

The Greek confused me as a kid. Who was this kind of impish, vaguely threatening guy? He didn't fit in at all with the rest of the polish, yet, he did.

The big Greek checkboard was one of my earliest memories. I remember getting Pished when the Greek didn't light the board up for the Packers (who sucked back then), not understanding beyond a kid's enthusiasm why he did what he did. Later in the 80s, when I began to "get" it and when the Greek still had his fastball, I thought the little tidbits he threw out were awesome.

I did like it that the show touched on the fact that The Greek was losing it a bit even before he was fired.

One bit of footage I thought was fascinating, and which touched a nerve, was Dan Dierdorf talking about The Greek jinxing the Cardinals. In '86, he picked the Cardinals to play the Raiders in the Super Bowl, which turned out to be absurdly inaccurate. My brother and I used to use it as a punchline when we were younger, a way of making fun of those who make predictions for a living.

At that time, he seemed a tired, obligatory face on TV who had worn out his welcome, with his racist comments (and yeah, they were racist, whether he intended them to be or not) giving CBS an easy chance to kick him to the curb, which the doc basically eluded to.

Looking back, it's amazing how unique his being on TV really was and what a fascinating character millions of NFL fans brought into their living rooms every Sunday morning.

Also looking back, the NFL Today was never the same from that point on, with Brent Musburger getting himself hacked by CBS a short time later.

 

[DanOregon]

I loved the theme song to NFL Today. Like the 30 minute show. It was tight. Previews in the A block. The feature on the Dallas Cowboy (it seemed) of the week. And then The Greek. I always wondered what "intangibles" were. Watching the NFL back then was smelling the whiff of a cigar, hearing the bark of "Pro. Program, get your program here" above the murmur of the entering fans, and the sound of live music on the PA by the Del Courtney Band. Being introduced by my folks to some of the people who also had season tickets around them like they were cousins and uncles. Seeing my normally mild mannered dad stand up and yell at the refs, wondering who this strange person was.

Takes me back to the days following my dad into the liquor store and seeing "The Gold Sheet" by the register and wondering why it seemed to be as mysterious and powerful as the Rosetta Stone.

 

[Steak Snabler]

One bit of footage I thought was fascinating, and which touched a nerve, was Dan Dierdorf talking about The Greek jinxing the Cardinals. In '86, he picked the Cardinals to play the Raiders in the Super Bowl, which turned out to be absurdly inaccurate. My brother and I used to use it as a punchline when we were younger, a way of making fun of those who make predictions for a living.

Along those lines, I remember Len Dawson picking the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to make the Super Bowl on the "Inside the NFL" preseason show in 1983. They went 2-14 that year and wouldn't have another winning season until 1997.

 

[Huggy]

Canuckistanis interested in this series - and I am one - should know that TSN has picked it up. The Colts Band one was on last weekend and the Gretzky trade doc is on Wednesday at 7:30 p.m.