outofplace
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DC Studios running thread
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Regan MacNeil
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Spartan Squad
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Cool castings. But with the exception of the first Wonder Woman, DC gets good casting and cool ideas, but then embarrashes itself on execution.
Saw the Flash. Ezra Miller sucked a fat one. Liked Keaton. Liked the idea of the multiverse. But the movie fell flat. Even the crazy cameos couldn't help.
Speaking of Flash, when we see various incarnations of people, any reason we didn't get the DC Arrowverse people to show up?
Saw the Flash. Ezra Miller sucked a fat one. Liked Keaton. Liked the idea of the multiverse. But the movie fell flat. Even the crazy cameos couldn't help.
Speaking of Flash, when we see various incarnations of people, any reason we didn't get the DC Arrowverse people to show up?
Starman
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The Ezra Miller shipparade has been in full flaming progress for what, 4-5 years now? I remember the initial release of Justice League (NOT the Zack Snyder edition) came under controversy because of the extremely icky stuff Miller (a decidedly minor player in thst storyline) was (VERY STRONGLY) suspected of being involved in. So they've had years and years during which they could have pulled the ejection handle on him.
You'd think somebody in the DC visual entertainment universe would have had a little light bulb go off in their heads over the Smallville NXVIM scandal with Allison Mack, and say, "when you get a chance to jettison these people, pull the trigger."
You'd think somebody in the DC visual entertainment universe would have had a little light bulb go off in their heads over the Smallville NXVIM scandal with Allison Mack, and say, "when you get a chance to jettison these people, pull the trigger."
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Starman
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I'm pretty sure the Arrowverse people from TV have a bunch of creative clearance issues that they can't just be stuck in any DC Universe work without credit lines and probably some residual payments too, although my understanding is (I haven't actually seen The Flash) that at least a couple Arrowverse people are alluded in the storyline.
Hell, for that matter, Twentieth Century FOX (now under the Disney aegis) controls some of the rights to Batman '66, ie Adam West.
Hell, for that matter, Twentieth Century FOX (now under the Disney aegis) controls some of the rights to Batman '66, ie Adam West.
outofplace
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You would think that stuff could be worked out. Burt Ward did appear in a huge multiversal Arrowverse crossover.
Spartan Squad
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I missed the references to the Aarowverse peeps. I was specifically waiting to see one particular person, perhaps two. But some of the IP clearances were done for others, shocked they couldn't get those.
Starman
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WB/DC is (in)famous for being stingy in allowing their Trinity (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman) to appear, or even be mentioned, in "lesser-tier" productions such as teevee shows, often going to ridiculous measures. For much of the series run of "Smallville," the word "Superman" was never to be uttered on screen.
My understanding, which certainly may be shaky, is that DC and now its parent corporation WB, has reached a number of different agreements over the years with the creators, or their heirs, of those flagship characters. I think some were the result of adverse court rulings, but most were settlement agreements signed onto by WB because the financial treatment of the early comic book creators were actually pretty much like indentured servitude, and WB wanted to settle the cases for nominal prices rather than risk mashive losses which would result in them losing the characters completely.
Therefore creation of Superman productions are credited to "Joe Shuster and the estate of Jerry Siegel," Batman stuff to "Bob Kane and Bill Finger" and Wonder Woman to "William Moulton Marston." I don't think the heirs have veto power over storylines, but they get the credit lines and they do get some money.
My understanding, which certainly may be shaky, is that DC and now its parent corporation WB, has reached a number of different agreements over the years with the creators, or their heirs, of those flagship characters. I think some were the result of adverse court rulings, but most were settlement agreements signed onto by WB because the financial treatment of the early comic book creators were actually pretty much like indentured servitude, and WB wanted to settle the cases for nominal prices rather than risk mashive losses which would result in them losing the characters completely.
Therefore creation of Superman productions are credited to "Joe Shuster and the estate of Jerry Siegel," Batman stuff to "Bob Kane and Bill Finger" and Wonder Woman to "William Moulton Marston." I don't think the heirs have veto power over storylines, but they get the credit lines and they do get some money.
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Starman
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I broke down and got "The Flash" on home streaming video.
forking awful. For this ship they essentially jettisoned the entire Snyderverse/Cavill/Affleck/Gadot/Momoa universe they already had going?
I mean each of those sub-franchises had their own problems --WW84 took an unbelievable ship -- but Ezra Miller? You forkin kidding me?
Miller was kinda ok in the various versions of Justice League where his role was to supply goofy dorky kid comic relief for 3 minutes at a time. When he's gotta carry the whole show for 20-30 minutes at a time he's forking obnoxious. Especially so because for about half the movie there are two of him on screen at the same time boringly droning on to each other for exposition.
As for the final cameo, they should have figured out a way to have Chris O'Donnell and Burt Ward walk across the camera and make some insipid pun about "holy deja vu!!"
Then exited to the overdubbed echoing laughter of Jack Nicholson, Heath Ledger, Cesar Romero and Mark Hamill.
Leading back to the inevitable conclusion, why didn't they just make a Batman/Superman Flashpoint movie, especially since most of the title actors are still alive? They'd have to do a few minutes of Christopher Reeve CGI, but ship, they spent god knows how much to get Nicolas Cage (!?!!?) or at least his CGI image in this one.
But Batman and Superman have back stories that people KNOW. If Barry Allen goes back in time and jacks up the Flash's story line, who really cares?
Say Superman decides to mess with history and goes back in history 30-35 years, to just about when all the current characters are being born? Maybe he messes up the chain of events so that the Waynes are not killed, but instead baby Bruce is kidnapped by rogue scientist Leonid Luthor? Meanwhile the first Kryptonian rocket is deflected in flight and lands in the forest wildlife area of the grounds of Stately Wayne Manor and is found by grieving parents Thomas and Martha Wayne, mourning the loss of their kidnapped, ashumed to be dead, son.
Flash forward 12 years let's say, when the time delayed SECOND Kryptonian rocket, launched in the chaos of the destruction of the planet, finds its way to Kansas and is found by kindly farmers Jonathan and Martha Kent. Blah blah, yadda yadda.
All this makes sense because people KNOW the Superman and Batman back stories. Nobody really knows or cares anything about the Flash's back story other than a vague knowledge he's supposed to be a crime scientist and he's supposed to end up with Iris West.
Oh yeah, the plot contrivance they've come up with that the Speed Force forces the Flash to constantly consume mash quantities of junk food for calories while he's using his powers -- really really forking stupid and annoying.
I suppose the logical consequence to that one would be, if he was chowing down all this high calorie junk food while running at super accelerated speeds, soon enough he'd start having to take super accelerated ships, no? What an opportunity for the CGI crew! Here's Flash speeding along at hypersonic speed!! suddenly he spots a porta potty on the right!! Faster than the eye can see, it's Super Speed ships!! But wait, no TP!! Don't worry, Barry keeps half a roll in his suit!!
forking awful. For this ship they essentially jettisoned the entire Snyderverse/Cavill/Affleck/Gadot/Momoa universe they already had going?
I mean each of those sub-franchises had their own problems --WW84 took an unbelievable ship -- but Ezra Miller? You forkin kidding me?
Miller was kinda ok in the various versions of Justice League where his role was to supply goofy dorky kid comic relief for 3 minutes at a time. When he's gotta carry the whole show for 20-30 minutes at a time he's forking obnoxious. Especially so because for about half the movie there are two of him on screen at the same time boringly droning on to each other for exposition.
As for the final cameo, they should have figured out a way to have Chris O'Donnell and Burt Ward walk across the camera and make some insipid pun about "holy deja vu!!"
Then exited to the overdubbed echoing laughter of Jack Nicholson, Heath Ledger, Cesar Romero and Mark Hamill.
Leading back to the inevitable conclusion, why didn't they just make a Batman/Superman Flashpoint movie, especially since most of the title actors are still alive? They'd have to do a few minutes of Christopher Reeve CGI, but ship, they spent god knows how much to get Nicolas Cage (!?!!?) or at least his CGI image in this one.
But Batman and Superman have back stories that people KNOW. If Barry Allen goes back in time and jacks up the Flash's story line, who really cares?
Say Superman decides to mess with history and goes back in history 30-35 years, to just about when all the current characters are being born? Maybe he messes up the chain of events so that the Waynes are not killed, but instead baby Bruce is kidnapped by rogue scientist Leonid Luthor? Meanwhile the first Kryptonian rocket is deflected in flight and lands in the forest wildlife area of the grounds of Stately Wayne Manor and is found by grieving parents Thomas and Martha Wayne, mourning the loss of their kidnapped, ashumed to be dead, son.
Flash forward 12 years let's say, when the time delayed SECOND Kryptonian rocket, launched in the chaos of the destruction of the planet, finds its way to Kansas and is found by kindly farmers Jonathan and Martha Kent. Blah blah, yadda yadda.
All this makes sense because people KNOW the Superman and Batman back stories. Nobody really knows or cares anything about the Flash's back story other than a vague knowledge he's supposed to be a crime scientist and he's supposed to end up with Iris West.
Oh yeah, the plot contrivance they've come up with that the Speed Force forces the Flash to constantly consume mash quantities of junk food for calories while he's using his powers -- really really forking stupid and annoying.
I suppose the logical consequence to that one would be, if he was chowing down all this high calorie junk food while running at super accelerated speeds, soon enough he'd start having to take super accelerated ships, no? What an opportunity for the CGI crew! Here's Flash speeding along at hypersonic speed!! suddenly he spots a porta potty on the right!! Faster than the eye can see, it's Super Speed ships!! But wait, no TP!! Don't worry, Barry keeps half a roll in his suit!!
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Starman
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Oh, while we're at it, I thought Keaton was surprisingly good -- he was at least as believable in the Batman action scenes as he was 30 years ago.
I was about to say, "darn, Keaton looks good for 70" -- actually he's now 71 -- but then again I think his footage may have been shot several years ago due to this ship-show movie's ridiculously convoluted, repeatedly delayed and dragged-out production history -- so he might have been 5 years younger when his scenes were shot.
Whenever Affleck's scenes were shot, particularly his Batman action scenes, must have been in the middle of one of his drunken bloated periods.
Michael Shannon has become the Michael Corleone of the DC universe, every time he thinks he's out, they pull him back in for a half hour of screen time in the next one.
The guy in the big cameo at the end looks pretty good and also looks pretty contemporary, like that footage could have been shot in the last several months. Probably an easy couple million bucks for 15 minutes work. Put on a nice suit, step out of a car, say two or three lines, cash the check.
From the way the scene was shot, I don't think the big cameo guy ever really had to be on set with Miller at the same time, which I think in the last year or so many big time established actors may have become reluctant, if not highly averse, to do.
It all could have been done with doubles and camera blocking. For all we know Miller's half of the scene could have been shot 5 years ago with somebody else entirely planned to be the cameo guy.
On that general topic, it is interesting that while almost all other DC superhero movie releases were alluded to in the big multiverse CGI montage sequence at the end -- even the Jon Peters/Nicolas Cage/ giant spider Superman Flyby movie that never happened -- rather glaring in its omission is any reference whatsoever to the Nolan/Bale Dark Knight Batverse, unless I missed it, in which case it would have to have been very fleeting.
I was about to say, "darn, Keaton looks good for 70" -- actually he's now 71 -- but then again I think his footage may have been shot several years ago due to this ship-show movie's ridiculously convoluted, repeatedly delayed and dragged-out production history -- so he might have been 5 years younger when his scenes were shot.
Whenever Affleck's scenes were shot, particularly his Batman action scenes, must have been in the middle of one of his drunken bloated periods.
Michael Shannon has become the Michael Corleone of the DC universe, every time he thinks he's out, they pull him back in for a half hour of screen time in the next one.
The guy in the big cameo at the end looks pretty good and also looks pretty contemporary, like that footage could have been shot in the last several months. Probably an easy couple million bucks for 15 minutes work. Put on a nice suit, step out of a car, say two or three lines, cash the check.
From the way the scene was shot, I don't think the big cameo guy ever really had to be on set with Miller at the same time, which I think in the last year or so many big time established actors may have become reluctant, if not highly averse, to do.
It all could have been done with doubles and camera blocking. For all we know Miller's half of the scene could have been shot 5 years ago with somebody else entirely planned to be the cameo guy.
On that general topic, it is interesting that while almost all other DC superhero movie releases were alluded to in the big multiverse CGI montage sequence at the end -- even the Jon Peters/Nicolas Cage/ giant spider Superman Flyby movie that never happened -- rather glaring in its omission is any reference whatsoever to the Nolan/Bale Dark Knight Batverse, unless I missed it, in which case it would have to have been very fleeting.
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