Last of Us Running Thread

[outofplace]

I know we've been doing this on the TV thread, but the show should have had its own a while ago.

Don't watch this if you don't want the end of the game spoiled. If you already know how it ends, this is definitely worth watching all the way through.

Spoiler

Watch this all the way through, but it is a big spoiler from the game.

 

[Cosmo]

The VPN thing isn't working for me here in England so I suppose I'll have to wait until I get home. Not worried about spoilers cuz IYKYK, still, sad I can't watch Sunday.

 

[outofplace]

That is a heck of a finale, from the opening through the final scene. That includes one major change in the story and the stuff they kept the same.

 

[outofplace]

The Last of Us creators stand by Bella Ramsey casting over season 2 time-jump complaints

Apparently, there are still fans of the game who are complaining about Bella Ramsey playing Ellie. Now they wanted her to be recast because there is a time jump of five years between the two games. One problem is the assumption that the show is definitely going to do that. There is at least one major story beat in the second game that I'm not sure they would do in a second season of the show. I think they will do it, but not that quickly.

The complaining is mostly because she doesn't look like the character in the game, but really, Ramsey is great. They aren't the only good things about the show, but Pascal and Ramsey are fantastic.

They have also done a good job fleshing out relatively minor characters from the game. I don't think the character from the opening of the season finale even appeared at all in the game, though she was mentioned. It was a great way to incorporate Ashley Johnson, the actress who provided the voice of Ellie in the games.

 

[outofplace]

It is probably too early to really get into this discussion, but at some point, I am curious what people think of Joel's actions in the episode.

 

[Spartan Squad]

It is probably too early to really get into this discussion, but at some point, I am curious what people think of Joel's actions in the episode.

(I'm assuming this is a show spoiler thread. Sorry to those who haven't watching last night's episode)

There's a lot here because it comes down to which aspect you're talking about.

First, he's struggling. He knows Ellie is not his daughter but he's realizing he is turning into it. He's doing the things where he's trying to connect and messing up because he wants Ellie to see him as her dad. Ellie is processing her trauma and isn't giving what Joel is going for. All of it is relatable.

Second is the hospital. He's got the impossible choice. A cold, pragmatic Joel doesn't make that decision. For the good of humanity, he lets Ellie die. But he sees her as a daughter. No father is going to sacrifice his daughter, especially when he's already lost one. Marlene is right. He's not going to protect her forever. He should think of helping everyone else. But he can't. As a realist, Joel was wrong. As a dad, I couldn't do it.

Lastly, lying to Ellie. Everything I've said to this point has been about protecting her. Now he's protecting himself. Ellie believes she's going to help humanity but don't know she has to die to do it. Would she make that choice? Joel can't take that chance. He doesn't want her to know he just laid waste to everyone she trusted, especially Marlene. This probably was the most selfish part. Both he and Marlene knew they can't risk telling Ellie. Marlene said for the good of humanity, she'll make the choice for Ellie. Joel, in his grief, says Ellie might choose to die for him and Tess and everyone else she lost and he would lose another daughter by his actions.

I called this episode anticlimactic last night. I knew I had to wait to post that thought because I was right, processing it really is showing me the true depth of this episode.

It begs you to take a side. Joel made a choice early on and lost his daughter. Marlene made a choice and had to take the life of her best friend. Joel's loss robbed him of a chance and informed his decisions. Marlene's choice showed her emotions get in the way of what is right. And Ellie is caught in the middle.

 

[outofplace]

I thought about putting a spoiler label on this thread, but I've been trying to avoid them. It's not like the end is entirely new. Most of that episode was taken directly from the game, with the beginning being new.

I was talking about the decision in the hospital. I agree with your take. We can see why Joel is wrong, but as a father, no way I could allow my child to die if I could do something to stop it and I haven't been through the trauma of losing a child the way Joel had done. I couldn't do it even if she was telling me to let her go. That would be true if she was 14, which is supposed to be Ellie's age in the show, or 19, as she is in the second game. (Also, that's Bella Ramsey's real age.)

The lying aspect is interesting. Parents will lie for their children and to their children if they think that is the right thing. Ellie's mother lies to Marlene at the start of the episode to protect Ellie. Marlene knows better, but takes Ellie anyway.

Joel isn't just lying to protect himself, though that is part of it. He is protecting Ellie. He knows it would hurt her to know the truth, but he also knows she would go looking for another doctor to try to make the cure reality and that search would lead to her death one way or another. Bella Ramsey said Ellie knows better, but she is trying to convince herself that Joel is telling the truth because he has become so important to her.

 

[Spartan Squad]

Joel isn't just lying to protect himself, though that is part of it. He is protecting Ellie. He knows it would hurt her to know the truth, but he also knows she would go looking for another doctor to try to make the cure reality and that search would lead to her death one way or another. Bella Ramsey said Ellie knows better, but she is trying to convince herself that Joel is telling the truth because he has become so important to her.

Yeah, your right here that he isn't just protecting himself. I focused on him lying to Ellie for himself because he's denying her a choice, which has been a subtle theme in the show. Ellie is fighting to have choice. She's lost so much and is in a situation not of her own making and is tethered to it. We meet her in a cell trying to convince everyone she is fine. Later, she wants to fight and can handle fighting, but Joel takes that choice away. We see it again when Joel tries to leave her with Tommy. This time she stands up for her choice. Then the pastor tries to take it away and we find her life on the verge of being taken away. All without choice. So I think that played into the calculus.

And of course he's trying to protect Ellie. The people she trusts just tried to kill her. That is hard to take.

BTW, the acting between those two. The emotion they share on screen. The pain you automatically feel in your gut when Bella looks at Pedro.

 

[outofplace]

Yeah, your right here that he isn't just protecting himself. I focused on him lying to Ellie for himself because he's denying her a choice, which has been a subtle theme in the show. Ellie is fighting to have choice. She's lost so much and is in a situation not of her own making and is tethered to it. We meet her in a cell trying to convince everyone she is fine. Later, she wants to fight and can handle fighting, but Joel takes that choice away. We see it again when Joel tries to leave her with Tommy. This time she stands up for her choice. Then the pastor tries to take it away and we find her life on the verge of being taken away. All without choice. So I think that played into the calculus.

And of course he's trying to protect Ellie. The people she trusts just tried to kill her. That is hard to take.

BTW, the acting between those two. The emotion they share on screen. The pain you automatically feel in your gut when Bella looks at Pedro.

Absolutely. I don't understand anybody who is still complaining about the casting on the show. We get it. She doesn't look like the character in the game. Get over it and let yourself enjoy as she knocks it out of the park.

 

[Roscablo]

I think more or less they knocked it out of the park again. I really liked the backstory. It was a good addition.

Another episode that had an infected encounter in the game that they didn't use in the show. I don't think it was as necessary as say the last episode, but it is interesting that they basically stayed away from the infected in four episodes where they were prominent and not just filler in the game. They clearly wanted to get away from a focus on the infected and there is part of me that thinks, well, maybe after 20 years maybe the infected aren't a huge problem any more, but then Boston was full of them and so was Kansas City (the last time they showed them). I guess they aren't out west!

Anyway, I was also wondering how they would handle the length of the episode since it was only about 45 minutes long. But this section in the game isn't long either, and they really nailed it. The action of Joel getting her back was spot on and brutal. When I played the game I wasn't taken back at all that Joel was rescuing Ellie. It was the lie that got me. It still gets me. I understand not wanting to lose her, but the lie, is just, so interesting and a different way to finish things. I guess being this brutal boss in this world and finding a connection with a kid and not knowing how to deal with any of the consequences.

Such a great show. Such a great adaptation. Now getting pretty far into the second game seeing some of the Easter eggs from that and even minor inclusions was interesting too. I can't wait to see where it goes.

 

[qtlaw]

I think more or less they knocked it out of the park again. I really liked the backstory. It was a good addition.

Another episode that had an infected encounter in the game that they didn't use in the show. I don't think it was as necessary as say the last episode, but it is interesting that they basically stayed away from the infected in four episodes where they were prominent and not just filler in the game. They clearly wanted to get away from a focus on the infected and there is part of me that thinks, well, maybe after 20 years maybe the infected aren't a huge problem any more, but then Boston was full of them and so was Kansas City (the last time they showed them). I guess they aren't out west!

Anyway, I was also wondering how they would handle the length of the episode since it was only about 45 minutes long. But this section in the game isn't long either, and they really nailed it. The action of Joel getting her back was spot on and brutal. When I played the game I wasn't taken back at all that Joel was rescuing Ellie. It was the lie that got me. It still gets me. I understand not wanting to lose her, but the lie, is just, so interesting and a different way to finish things. I guess being this brutal boss in this world and finding a connection with a kid and not knowing how to deal with any of the consequences.

Such a great show. Such a great adaptation. Now getting pretty far into the second game seeing some of the Easter eggs from that and even minor inclusions was interesting too. I can't wait to see where it goes.

As a parent I'm 100% for blasting away to rescue your kid.

The Lie? I'm not so sure. You try to protect your kids but at some point I understood that they're going to have to find out for themselves an$ you can't hide things.

If there's one thing I've learned as a parent, a lie is like a short fix, but honesty is the long term answer that pays dividends every day going forward. I see it in my relationships with my grown boys (well 23 & 21).

 

[outofplace]

As a parent I'm 100% for blasting away to rescue your kid.

The Lie? I'm not so sure. You try to protect your kids but at some point I understood that they're going to have to find out for themselves an$ you can't hide things.

If there's one thing I've learned as a parent, a lie is like a short fix, but honesty is the long term answer that pays dividends every day going forward. I see it in my relationships with my grown boys (well 23 & 21).

Agreed, but our relationships with our children are on a lot steadier ground than Joel's relationship with Ellie.