Saint Francis goes D-III

[cjericho]

I know everyone around here scratched their heads when Mercyhurst, a fair-to-middling D-II program in the PSAC, bolted for FCS football and D-I hoops in the NEC a year or two ago.

I didn't even know Stonehill had moved up to D-I, and I'm a junkie for that sort of stuff.

View attachment 19287

U New Haven should be moving up next season? buddy, who played football there, told me a few years ago they were supposed to go FCS.
They've been pretty good the last few years, but made the D2 semis a while back.

 

[tapintoamerica]

That's eight schools left for the NEC, half of whom have joined in the last three seasons. All but Chicago State are transitioning up from D-II. Not exactly a paragon of stability.

What if they held a conference tournament and nobody was eligible to play in the NCAAs?

 

[tapintoamerica]

I've actually covered a game in Loretto. Nothing like Liberty-St. Francis on a mid-2000s Saturday night...

Hartford just did this a few years ago. I do think this is going to be the beginning of the end of the low major. I wonder about schools like Longwood that just put a ton of capital into building a pretty nice little arena. What does VMI gain by staying Division I? It's at a terrible competitive disadvantage just to stay afloat in the SoCon? Fordham has more in common with Manhattan and the rest of the MAAC than it does with VCU and Dayton and the A-10.

VMI won't quit. Their good old boy klan won't allow it. Division I sports are the only semblance of legitimacy they have. The institution lost its purpose 160 years ago.

 

[Bubbler]

St. Francis has been Division I all along, right? Mike Iuzzolino is rolling around in his grave. (I'd have said Norm Van Lier or Maurice Stokes, but, um, you know.)

I've always thought Division I needed to cull about 1/3 of its membership. That will happen now because these tiny private schools cannot afford the price of admission. A lot of private schools, even prominent ones, are going to struggle when fighting the twin problems of paying players plus enrollment decline.

Casual fans and too many media types group conferences as "mid-major" underneath the power conferences. There are vast differences between the Mountain West and the lowest of the Division I low in every single way. Institutional mission, statewide appeal, size, public vs. private, etc. It's bizarre that Division I ever got that big in the first place.

NCAA probably had the right idea when it had a college and university division before the dawn of modern Division I. At least then it was based on the institutitional mission.

 

[jr/shotglass]

About the only reservation I have is that when the weakest of the bunch start dropping down, it's going to leave pockets of the country without somewhat easy access to D-I sports. Using myself just as an example, an hour trip down US 15 to see Mount St. Mary's is a lot easier than two hours over the mountain in the winter to State College.

And a lot of the schools that would go that route are in the non-urban areas -- like Loretto, Pa. Unless I'm missing my guess; I haven't really done any deep dive into that.

 

[micropolitan guy]

I've actually covered a game in Loretto. Nothing like Liberty-St. Francis on a mid-2000s Saturday night...

Hartford just did this a few years ago. I do think this is going to be the beginning of the end of the low major. I wonder about schools like Longwood that just put a ton of capital into building a pretty nice little arena. What does VMI gain by staying Division I? It's at a terrible competitive disadvantage just to stay afloat in the SoCon? Fordham has more in common with Manhattan and the rest of the MAAC than it does with VCU and Dayton and the A-10.

VMI should be in the ODAC.

 

[2muchcoffeeman]

About the only reservation I have is that when the weakest of the bunch start dropping down, it's going to leave pockets of the country without somewhat easy access to D-I sports.

Cable TV and streaming.

Nothing of value will be lost.

 

[dixiehack]

A lot of private schools, even prominent ones, are going to struggle when fighting the twin problems of paying players plus enrollment decline.

I'm not sure paying (or not paying) players is the issue for schools in this weight class. St. Francis assuredly wasn't paying players before and they were never attracting the caliber of athlete that would now expect to receive NIL money. I feel confident saying that applies across their league.

The statement brought up the expense of playing in a league stretching from Chicago to Boston, which is a pretty recent development. The rest of the NEC is a bus league though (and you could probably push it and bus to Massachusetts, brutal as it would be.) They may truly be on such a tight margin as a university that those handful of flights to ORD were the breaking point.

 

[jr/shotglass]

I'm not sure paying (or not paying) players is the issue for schools in this weight class. St. Francis assuredly wasn't paying players before and they were never attracting the caliber of athlete that would now expect to receive NIL money. I feel confident saying that applies across their league.

I'm just spitballing here -- but isn't there a difference between some deep-pocketed alums taking care of the NIL bill, and the school being tasked with doing that out of its own coiffers? Because that's what the NCAA is putting on paper in the next week or two.

And as far as NIL-level players not going to a mid-major, it's already beginning to happen and we're just in the infancy of this new reality. heck, when Tyson Bagent was at Shepherd, he was doing car commericals for a Hagerstown station. He wasn't doing it out of the goodness of his heart.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

Saint Francis reached the absolute pinnacle of the sport considering its standing in the landscape -- win your league tournament, win a play-in game, get smashed by a 1 seed in the round of 64. We can talk about how -- theoretically (jerk-off emoji) -- everyone in Division I has a chance to win a national title. But, yeah, no.

This might be an exception proves the rule argument, but Fairleigh Dickinson got to the pinnacle for an NEC/lower D-I school by recording the 16 over 1 upset a couple years ago. That resulted in the best-case scenario for smaller schools in which the increased interest over a weekend or two dramatically raises applications in subsequent years. I can't find FDU enrollment numbers for '24-25, but Saint Peter's, which some people out this way thought might have to close during the pandemic, experienced its biggest enrollment in 25 years for the 2023-24 school year...which, of course, started 18 months after the miracle run to the Elite Eight.

Saint Peter’s Reports Highest Enrollment in 25 Years for 2023-24 Academic Year - News

Go forth and change the world.

www.saintpeters.edu

Now, of course, this is the sporting version of someone hitting the lottery and solving all their pre-existing problems. It's not exactly a blueprint for everyone else. Still, it's a bummer to see a school get its moment in the sun immediately before it begins planning a move to D-III.

 

[Twirling Time]

I was looking at the 1985 NCAA Tournament and FDU almost pulled off the 16-1 upset then, losing to Michigan 59-55.

 

[tapintoamerica]

This might be an exception proves the rule argument, but Fairleigh Dickinson got to the pinnacle for an NEC/lower D-I school by recording the 16 over 1 upset a couple years ago. That resulted in the best-case scenario for smaller schools in which the increased interest over a weekend or two dramatically raises applications in subsequent years. I can't find FDU enrollment numbers for '24-25, but Saint Peter's, which some people out this way thought might have to close during the pandemic, experienced its biggest enrollment in 25 years for the 2023-24 school year...which, of course, started 18 months after the miracle run to the Elite Eight.

Saint Peter’s Reports Highest Enrollment in 25 Years for 2023-24 Academic Year - News

Go forth and change the world.

www.saintpeters.edu

Now, of course, this is the sporting version of someone hitting the lottery and solving all their pre-existing problems. It's not exactly a blueprint for everyone else. Still, it's a bummer to see a school get its moment in the sun immediately before it begins planning a move to D-III.

St. Peter's enrollment gains are due largely to graduate programs, and that suggests they have created some new degree programs. (Undergrad enrollment increased only 30 students from fall 2022 to fall 2023).
This is not to say the run in 2022 has been irrelevant, however.
For the fall 2023 entering undergrad cohort, the school experienced a 58% jump in applications from men, a 37% jump in applications from women and a 40% boost overall. Acceptance rates actually increased and yield fell, but the applicant increases led to a gain of 15.5% in enrollment for for first-time freshmen relative to the prior year.