Ukraine Always Get What You Want

[outofplace]

Think back to the run-up and the early days of the war. Russia was talking about conquering Ukraine in three days and Ukrainians were talking about how they would rather die than be ruled by Russia and that they would take to the streets and fight to the last person standing.

Now we're three years later. Russia has failed miserably in its ultimate goal. Ukraine has immeasurably suffered. The problem with talking about "reality" is that Ukraine can't trust one thing out of Putin's and Trump's mouths. Putin has proved that he doesn't act in good faith. So why would Ukraine, after all they have been through, want to trust any sort of deal that Putin and Trump concoct?

So the war continues until either Russia finally folds or Ukraine agrees to submit to Russia rule.

Exactly. What exactly does Ukraine get out of giving in to Russia's demands? They gain no protections and give the Russian military time to rest, reorganize, and re-arm for another attack. Is there any doubt that Putin will have them attacking Ukraine again some time soon?

 

[BTExpress]

No Russian government official --- and certainly not Putin --- said they would take Ukraine in three days. Much of that nonsense and misinformation came from General Mark Milley (head of the U.S. Army Joint Chiefs of Staff), who said Putin could take Kiev in three days. As reported in early February by FoxNews:

"Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told lawmakers that Kiev could fall within 72 hours if there is a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine, several congressional sources told Fox News. Milley told lawmakers during closed-door briefings Feb. 2 and 3 that a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine could cause Kiev to fall within 72 hours and could cost 15,000 Ukrainian servicemen and 4,000 Russian troops deaths. Several lawmakers expressed concern that the Biden administration did not respond quickly and provide Ukraine with significant military assistance, such as anti-aircraft and multiple rocket launchers, that would have protected it from invasion from Russia."

This nonsense was then repeated by the CIA and other U.S. intelligence officials, and by "leaks from Putin's spies" who claimed that was Russia's plan. None of it believable. The same "leaks," I assume, that told us two years ago Putin was dying/blind/cancer-riddled, etc.

Just idiotic. Nothing short of a rain of nuclear warheads would have made Kyiv fall in three days.

 

[2muchcoffeeman]

No Russian government official --- and certainly not Putin --- said they would take Ukraine in three days. Much of that nonsense and misinformation came from General Mark Milley (head of the U.S. Army Joint Chiefs of Staff), who said Putin could take Kiev in three days.

That would be a lie.

Vladimir Putin expected to defeat Ukraine in three days after his spies told him thousands of people would rise up to overthrow Volodymyr Zelensky.

Leaked documents show the FSB security service was feeding poor intelligence to the Russian tyrant before his invasion of Ukraine.

Putin ordered his forces to invade Ukraine a year ago in the belief he could secure a lightning victory by seizing the capital Kyiv and "decapitating" the leadership.

But heroic Ukrainian resistance thwarted the Russians, whose dreams of quick victory soon turned into the nightmare - with nearly 150,000 of Putin's soldiers now lying dead.

The initial attempt to take Kyiv has been blamed on cataclysmic intelligence failures about the capabilities of the Ukrainians and their willingness to fight back.

But the extent to which Putin's spies bungled is revealed by emails from within the FSB, which have been shared with The Sun.

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/putin-thought-he-could-take-ukraine-in-three-days-leaked-emails-reveal/news-story/bf4de32af600b8b653069cdc34c174c8

 

[BTExpress]

As I said above, the same "leaks" that also said Putin was dying/blind/cancer stricken? All that's missing is a thumbs-up from Seymour Hersh.

What an amazing coincidence that Milley's assessment in early February 2022 exactly matches the "FSB leaks" published in February 2023.

At some point people need to pick a lane. Are the Russians capable enough to throw an American election for Trump, or so outrageously incompetent they completely bungled their war assessment?

 

[2muchcoffeeman]

Nice try, but you've lost this round.

 

[BTExpress]

Russia invaded Ukraine with 190,000 troops --- smaller than Ukraine's 196,000-strong military at the time.

When Hitler invaded Poland (half the size of Ukraine with 10 million fewer people in 1939), he did so with 1.5 million men.

Do the math.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

No Russian government official --- and certainly not Putin --- said they would take Ukraine in three days. Much of that nonsense and misinformation came from General Mark Milley (head of the U.S. Army Joint Chiefs of Staff), who said Putin could take Kiev in three days. As reported in early February by FoxNews:

"Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told lawmakers that Kiev could fall within 72 hours if there is a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine, several congressional sources told Fox News. Milley told lawmakers during closed-door briefings Feb. 2 and 3 that a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine could cause Kiev to fall within 72 hours and could cost 15,000 Ukrainian servicemen and 4,000 Russian troops deaths. Several lawmakers expressed concern that the Biden administration did not respond quickly and provide Ukraine with significant military assistance, such as anti-aircraft and multiple rocket launchers, that would have protected it from invasion from Russia."

This nonsense was then repeated by the CIA and other U.S. intelligence officials, and by "leaks from Putin's spies" who claimed that was Russia's plan. None of it believable. The same "leaks," I assume, that told us two years ago Putin was dying/blind/cancer-riddled, etc.

Just idiotic. Nothing short of a rain of nuclear warheads would have made Kyiv fall in three days.

Eh three days. Two weeks. Like a Scaramucci would really have mattered to Ukrainians.

Putin Boasts of Being Able to Take Kiev in 2 Weeks

The Kremlin doesn’t deny the stakes-raising comment but says it was taken out of context

time.com

 

[swingline]

About Greenland: Why is Denmark allowing the American clown car on its soil. Detain them on entry, go through their phones and computers and, when messages threatening Denmark's sovereignty are found, keep them for a few days for investigation, then deport them.

Greenland: You can have them back when you release New Provo Front, Liberte de Quebec and the Asian Dawn brothers and sisters.

Trump: Keep 'em. Elon, you're up!

 

[WriteThinking]

I don't really see Russia or Belarus clamoring for any deal, but . . .

Maybe the Ukrainian people would like to see a deal made. They rejected lowering the conscription age from 25 to 18 (It used to be 27 --- how many people even know their conscription age is so high?) despite an urgent need for more men. Not to mention the 18-25 age group is the nation's weakest in numbers---which means in a few years the conscription-age group will be the weakest. Mothers are sending their kids abroad to avoid military service when they come of age. And 46% of Ukrainians say there is no shame in draft dodging. Seems, uh, rather high for a nation fighting for its existence.

Why Do Ukrainians Oppose Lowering The Conscription Age?

Suggestions by U.S. politicians that Ukraine lower the conscription age from 25 to 18 are deeply unpopular in the country.

www.rferl.org

I get what you're saying. But maybe Ukrainians don't think they should have to be fighting for their country's existence.

Putin invaded Ukraine, unprovoked and entirely without reason, except in his own mind. Ukrainians just want Putin/Russia out of their country. Period. It shouldn't be hard to understand, or, frankly, disputed.

Putin is the one who needs to be dealt with, not Zelensky/Ukraine, and that's what no one -- least of all Trump -- seems willing or able to do.

 

[dixiehack]

Are the Russians capable enough to throw an American election for Trump, or so outrageously incompetent they completely bungled their war assessment?

Two different competencies for two different actions. Entirely possible to be good at subterfuge and bad at conventional warfare.

 

[I Should Coco]

Two different competencies for two different actions. Entirely possible to be good at subterfuge and bad at conventional warfare.

Maybe Putin and his military honchos also like to share their attack plans on Signal.

 

[BTExpress]

Have they upgraded from Windows XP yet?

Vladimir Putin 'still uses obsolete Windows XP' despite hacking risk

Official photos seem to show president using unsupported OS at Kremlin and residence

www.theguardian.com