Meanwhile on the International front....

[2muchcoffeeman]

Hamas is an acronym for Ḥarakah al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah, not a word. It roughly translates as "Islamic Resistance Movement," but "the Hamas" is grammatically incorrect.

 

[WriteThinking]

Hamas is an acronym for Ḥarakah al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah, not a word. It roughly translates as "Islamic Resistance Movement," but "the Hamas" is grammatically incorrect.

It's grammatically incorrect to call it The Islamic Resistance Movement? Well, if it is, I can live with that. The point is, it's a group -- a terrorist group -- not a country, and it bothers me that people talk about it like it is one.

 

[Spartan Squad]

It's the National Aeronautics and Space Administration but you wouldn't call it the NASA

 

[Twirling Time]

Since this is pretty much a cinch to become the Israeli war thread, may we update the thread title accordingly?

I'm good with that, but once the Israelis clean up the breakouts in short order, it will became a Gaza slaughter. The proverbial fish in a very dense barrel.

I am very ambivalent about that. And by ambivalent I mean HELL NO to mash slaughter of innocent Gaza civilians. Give proven non-combatants a free pash to Egypt or the West Bank. After that, I'm OK with turning Gaza into a parking lot that Jerry Jones would be proud of.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Smokey Bear wonders what the fuss is all about.

 

[WriteThinking]

It's the National Aeronautics and Space Administration but you wouldn't call it the NASA

Whatever, guys. I don't care. Although maybe Hamas should be treated like an actual acronym, then, and be all-capped. That might make a difference. As it is, Hamas sounds, and is written about, like it's a country.

And they just started another unprovoked war in a world that doesn't need even one. There are an awful lot of sorry excuses for human beings alive right now, in this country, and others. The human race should be embarrashed and ashamed of itself.

 

[I Should Coco]

A serious question: How is Hamas different from the PLO, which was regarded by most* as a terrorist organization?

* — most Americans, I should specify.

 

[Twirling Time]

Hamas is an acronym for Ḥarakah al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah, not a word. It roughly translates as "Islamic Resistance Movement," but "the Hamas" is grammatically incorrect.

NERDS!

 

[Neutral Corner]

And proud of it.

 

[outofplace]

I hear you. My son (now a freshman in college) has been to Israel twice in the last two years - once for a six-week visit sponsored by his summer camp and again last spring for four weeks with his senior clash (he transferred to a Jewish prep school after freshman year because he needed smaller clashes and more attention than our huge public HS could give and the Israel trip is part of the curriculum). Yesterday he learned that one of his Israeli counselors from his visit this past spring, who he was close to, was abducted by Hamas from a desert rave shortly after the start of the attack and then there was a published report yesterday evening that he was murdered (we are holding out hope it is false - the news source has a sketchy quality - but realistically he's probably dead). I spent a year there myself when I was younger and was there during a scary time myself (the first Gulf War - I was there for the scuds). I have friends I've known for more than 30 years who live there and some of them have kids doing their active duty commitment in the IDF. I don't blame anyone for engaging in debate over short/long term blame, Bibi's political future, US support for Israel, etc, but it's just tough to digest that kind of armchair analysis right now (the same way it's probably tough to hear armchair analysis from me when a world event takes place that I have zero connection to, I'm personally removed from and it's largely academic). I'm feeling pretty dazed regarding yesterday. And I'm dreading the decision we're going to have to make regarding whether our daughter goes this summer knowing how crushed she'll be if she can't go - the trip is a culmination of an 8-year program - and how emotionally wrenching it will be to have to make a decision not to send our daughter to visit what to us is our homeland and a refuge for our people, as imperfect as it may be. They canceled the trip for covid a few years ago but they've never, in something like 75 years, canceled it for geopolitical/safety issues.

I do worry that they would refuse to cancel something like that except in the most extreme circumstances. I know the folks with Birthright brag that they have never had to cancel a trip. I would have felt better if they had canceled one or two if there was enough of a danger at the time.

I hope it doesn't come to that for your daughter, but I'm sure you will handle it the best way possible if it comes to that.

 

[outofplace]

Doubt is a strong word. No, I don't doubt it. I also don't think it's 100% metaphysical certitude, given Israel in this hypothetical scenario still presumably has the US as an ally. Because I do think we'd go to war for them in that hypothetical scenario and probably end up with some hard-earned stalemate that'd would basically put everyone where they already are now, minus tens of thousands of dead on all sides.

I don't see a solution to this problem that would make both sides happy or even content.

Let me add, for TigerVols' friend, if Israel were truly only about peace, why are they settling the West Bank over and over and over again? I suspect the average hard-liner has just as much hate in his heart as your average aggrieved Palestinian.

Edit: I looked at my wording and it could be confusing. TLDR: They'd 100% be attacked. I don't think they'd be wiped out.

The people of Israel believe they have to refuse to back down. They believe they can't show weakness. They are probably right about that, too.

Tomorrow, I will meet a 21-year-old Israeli military veteran who has been drafted back into service. The next day, he will fly home. He has friends who are already fighting. He will be joining them very soon. I have no idea what I will say to him. I'm darn sure that if the current situation comes up, I will show nothing but support for Israel. I'm darn sure that I won't bring up the notion that Israel did anything to cause what Hamas did. I doubt anyone here would, either.

 

[Batman]

Seeing plenty of Twitter chatter about this, but haven't seen much actual reporting on it.
Same with reports that Hamas is beheading captured Israel soldiers (although there are reportedly videos and photos of that circulating around).