“New” Beatles song

[sgreenwell]

Heard it the other day and it sounded like something that never would have been released when they were active, certainly not in the form it's in now.

One thing I've learned listening to box sets over the years: there's a reason unreleased tracks and alternate takes were in the vault. Others mileage may vary but to me, in the overwhelming majority of cases, they add little to the artists' catalogue. Rarely have I heard something and thought, "ship, why did they never release that?"

I think the best case scenario is something like Prince, where your reaction can be, "wow wtf he did this?" or "this sounds pretty good, but not as good as peak Prince." Nirvana had "You Know You're Right," which Cobain had played live and Hole covered after his death. I don't think that's a great song, but it would have worked fine as an album track.

 

[Huggy]

I think the best case scenario is something like Prince, where your reaction can be, "wow wtf he did this?" or "this sounds pretty good, but not as good as peak Prince." Nirvana had "You Know You're Right," which Cobain had played live and Hole covered after his death. I don't think that's a great song, but it would have worked fine as an album track.

Springsteen obviously mined his vaults for some good stuff but as an example of the other extreme the mountain of Hendrix stuff that came out after his death - even after it was properly dealt with following the shoddy albums released in the first years after he died - haven't revealed anything as good as what he released during his lifetime. (There has, however, been some terrific live stuff released since his death.)

 

[sgreenwell]

Springsteen obviously mined his vaults for some good stuff but as an example of the other extreme the mountain of Hendrix stuff that came out after his death - even after it was properly dealt with following the shoddy albums released in the first years after he died - haven't revealed anything as good as what he released during his lifetime. (There has, however, been some terrific live stuff released since his death.)

One benefit of Spotify is that plenty of live, import or rare stuff is now 100x more accessible. I probably wouldn't have listened to Interpol demos or Blur live from Wembley without it.

 

[garrow]

I think the best case scenario is something like Prince, where your reaction can be, "wow wtf he did this?" or "this sounds pretty good, but not as good as peak Prince." Nirvana had "You Know You're Right," which Cobain had played live and Hole covered after his death. I don't think that's a great song, but it would have worked fine as an album track.

Same with the Doors' "Ghost Song" from 1978

 

[YMCA B-Baller]

Heard it the other day and it sounded like something that never would have been released when they were active, certainly not in the form it's in now.

One thing I've learned listening to box sets over the years: there's a reason unreleased tracks and alternate takes were in the vault. Others mileage may vary but to me, in the overwhelming majority of cases, they add little to the artists' catalogue. Rarely have I heard something and thought, "ship, why did they never release that?"

A notable exception is the Rolling Stones, who commit an entirely different sin.

Because of the Mick-Keef dynamic, where they were often at butted heads arguing over what style the Stones should pursue? Some pretty good ship got left off of albums for the sake of "relevance" over some songs that were much better. (Or, someone like Mick Taylor or Bill Wyman wanted a deserved song credit and they scuppered it for that reason.)

The most obvious evidence of this is the existence of "Tattoo You", which are outtakes from the Goats Head Soup to Emotional Rescue era.

Many of the songs on Tattoo You could have replaced inferior fare on the albums they were left off in the first place. Especially "Emotional Rescue", which would be 50 times better if it included "Start Me Up", "Little T&A" and "No Use In Crying", all of which were recorded during those sessions, instead of say, trendy ship like "Dance Part 1".

There are other long-known outtakes that have been out there for a long time, especially from the Mick Taylor era. But the Stones won't release them in original form.

One of them was "Criss Cross Man". It's been out there forever, and more easily accessible in the Youtube era, and absolutely, positively should have not only been on "Goats Head Soup", but should have been its lead single.

This is how the original mix sounds, which I ripped and burned to disc, and listened to for years. It's a forking banger.

.

So when the Stones finally did the re-release treatment of "Goats Head Soup" a few years ago (including having Gilles Martin re-mix the original masters, which is great, by the way), they unearthed "Criss Cross Man" officially.

Only they over-dubbed guitars, not the worst sin, but not necessary, but worse? Mick re-recorded vocals and re-jiggered the lyrics. He did the same thing for some of the "new" songs when they re-did both "Exile On Main Street" and "Sticky Fingers".

They did even worse to an outtake "You Should Have Seen Her ash". They removed the title entirely and retitled it "All The Rage". Now, admittedly, the original's lyrics are totally indecipherable and likely incomplete, and the new song is certainly not bad by any means (it has that groove), but the big, bad Stones getting squeamish about a non-PC song title is just lame.

It's annoying. Just release the original ship and let it stand. I don't need a Frankenstein monster of new and old mixed together.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

Heard it the other day and it sounded like something that never would have been released when they were active, certainly not in the form it's in now.

One thing I've learned listening to box sets over the years: there's a reason unreleased tracks and alternate takes were in the vault. Others mileage may vary but to me, in the overwhelming majority of cases, they add little to the artists' catalogue. Rarely have I heard something and thought, "ship, why did they never release that?"

I remember when Bon Jovi released a box set in 2004. It was FOUR forkING DISCS!!!! Guys, the number of good album tracks you have would fit on one CD with room to spare. The last thing the world needed was nearly four hours of outtakes. "Slippery When Wet" was Bon Jovi's only good front-to-back record during their uber peak. The next two records were almost all filler beyond the admittedly great singles. There's seriously only two or three album tracks I like on "New Jersey" & "Keep The Faith." Even the new songs on their first greatest hits record, "Cross Road," were split between an absolute grade-A killer of a song ("Always") and shipty dreck ("Someday I'll Be Saturday Night"). I was fine w/just digging the singles w/o buying the albums thereafter (though I think "Crush" and "The Circle" ended up in our collections somehow). What Jon did to keep them relevant long after hair metal faded is remarkable, but they are and were limited beyond Richie's skills.

 

[Huggy]

A notable exception is the Rolling Stones, who commit an entirely different sin.

Because of the Mick-Keef dynamic, where they were often at butted heads arguing over what style the Stones should pursue? Some pretty good ship got left off of albums for the sake of "relevance" over some songs that were much better. (Or, someone like Mick Taylor or Bill Wyman wanted a deserved song credit and they scuppered it for that reason.)

The most obvious evidence of this is the existence of "Tattoo You", which are outtakes from the Goats Head Soup to Emotional Rescue era.

Many of the songs on Tattoo You could have replaced inferior fare on the albums they were left off in the first place. Especially "Emotional Rescue", which would be 50 times better if it included "Start Me Up", "Little T&A" and "No Use In Crying", all of which were recorded during those sessions, instead of say, trendy ship like "Dance Part 1".

There are other long-known outtakes that have been out there for a long time, especially from the Mick Taylor era. But the Stones won't release them in original form.

One of them was "Criss Cross Man". It's been out there forever, and more easily accessible in the Youtube era, and absolutely, positively should have not only been on "Goats Head Soup", but should have been its lead single.

This is how the original mix sounds, which I ripped and burned to disc, and listened to for years. It's a forking banger.

.

So when the Stones finally did the re-release treatment of "Goats Head Soup" a few years ago (including having Gilles Martin re-mix the original masters, which is great, by the way), they unearthed "Criss Cross Man" officially.

Only they over-dubbed guitars, not the worst sin, but not necessary, but worse? Mick re-recorded vocals and re-jiggered the lyrics. He did the same thing for some of the "new" songs when they re-did both "Exile On Main Street" and "Sticky Fingers".

They did even worse to an outtake "You Should Have Seen Her ash". They removed the title entirely and retitled it "All The Rage". Now, admittedly, the original's lyrics are totally indecipherable and likely incomplete, and the new song is certainly not bad by any means (it has that groove), but the big, bad Stones getting squeamish about a non-PC song title is just lame.

It's annoying. Just release the original ship and let it stand. I don't need a Frankenstein monster of new and old mixed together.

As a fellow Stones fan you're spot on. (I'd forgottten about Criss Cross Man which, to my ears, wouldn't be out of place on Exile). I think of stuff they eventually bring out like "Good Time Woman" which is kinda interesting as the template for "Tumbling Dice" and the version of "Brown Sugar" with Clapton which was meh. The live releases from their vaults are so-so, except for those from the Mick Taylor era.

 

[YMCA B-Baller]

As a fellow Stones fan you're spot on. (I'd forgottten about Criss Cross Man which, to my ears, wouldn't be out of place on Exile). I think of stuff they eventually bring out like "Good Time Woman" which is kinda interesting as the template for "Tumbling Dice" and the version of "Brown Sugar" with Clapton which was meh. The live releases from their vaults are so-so, except for those from the Mick Taylor era.

I dig the Clapton "Brown Sugar". Slide guitar is dirty on that.

Tumbling Dice was the culmination of years of false-starts, including Good Time Woman. Amazing to me that a song that sounds like it was recorded at a backwoods juke joint was actually very meticulously crafted. It's one of the non-south-of-France basement songs from Exile, but you'd never know it. Greatest song ever.

Stones still have a shipload of unreleased stuff from that era. Some of it is ship, some of it is fascinating, some are instrumental jams. They were prolific, but really kind of dumb sometimes about what they picked for albums.

 

[Huggy]

I dig the Clapton "Brown Sugar". Slide guitar is dirty on that.

Tumbling Dice was the culmination of years of false-starts, including Good Time Woman. Amazing to me that a song that sounds like it was recorded at a backwoods juke joint was actually very meticulously crafted. It's one of the non-south-of-France basement songs from Exile, but you'd never know it. Greatest song ever.

Stones still have a shipload of unreleased stuff from that era. Some of it is ship, some of it is fascinating, some are instrumental jams. They were prolific, but really kind of dumb sometimes about what they picked for albums.

I have long maintained Tumbling Dice is their best song. And you're right, making it seem like a song that went through so many iterations sounds like it was tossed off late one night is no easy feat.

To me, artists are almost always right when it comes to stuff they release. Stuff in vaults and alternate takes are fun for the hardcore fan but don't often make you think it should have had widespread release at the time. Live recordings can be of some value especially to Jimi junkie like me. (The Who have also released some terrific shows from their onstage prime.)

 

[garrow]

The Stones' best song is Monkey Man, man.

 

[DanielSimpsonDay]

290 pages on the Steve Hoffman forums.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

290 pages on the Steve Hoffman forums.

And that's just one thread. There are several.

Beatles Red & Blue Albums (2023) (w/ "Now and Then")
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And my favorite...

Where do we go from here, Beatle people?
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And keep in mind, each page has 25 posts.