California Wildfires running thread

[HanSenSE]

Not to get too much into this, but what are fully functioning, constantly flowing fire hydrants going to do to fast-moving wildfires? Would they save even one house? A fire hydrant couldn't save a whole neighborhood that for some reason was burning in normal conditions.

Not to say it isn't an issue if a single house caught on fire (or if for some reason that one fire started to spread) and shouldn't be fixed, but in this situation it is just lipstick on a pig.

A Congresscritter from that area was making the same point on one of the Sunday shows. We're talking about hundreds of hydrants all in use at the same time. The system wasn't designed for that.

 

[LanceyHoward]

Not to get too much into this, but what are fully functioning, constantly flowing fire hydrants going to do to fast-moving wildfires? Would they save even one house? A fire hydrant couldn't save a whole neighborhood that for some reason was burning in normal conditions.

Not to say it isn't an issue if a single house caught on fire (or if for some reason that one fire started to spread) and shouldn't be fixed, but in this situation it is just lipstick on a pig.

In Aurora, Colorado on a hot weekend day in July you will a notice a drop in water pressure. Why, because of all the people watering there lawns? I can only image what happens to water pressure in system when fire trucks are desperately trying to fill their tans.

 

[LanceyHoward]

[

What I've seen and read:
-- The dry reservoir was undergoing renovation, but has been closed for a year. This is inexcusable. City pashed an $800,000+ bill to pay for it, but the best outside bid came in at $1.3M. Opponents said the work should have been done by city personnel, not contracted out. That reservoir was supposed to be for drinking water. Debris and bird crap was getting into it.
-- Newsom's deal on water was to help save the salmon habitat. Reports said it was to save an insignificant fish called smelt. Not birds. IMO, no amount of redirected water would have prevented the devastation of these fires.

Southern California has been trying to get additional water from Northern California for over 40 years. Environmentalists have fought it off. But it would also be expensive as hell because of the need to build the canal network and also elevate the water. No one has stepped up to the plate with the billions of dollars necessary.

But I think there was enough water in Southern California to fight the fire. The bottleneck was that when the water pipes were originally laid they were not wide enough to handle the demands of the firefighters trying to fill their trucks. The distributions system could have been hooked up to Lake Superior but the firefighters can only remove water from the system as fast as the distributions system can replenish. Production Management 101 teaches that the capacity is always that of your mist restrictive bottleneck.

 

[DanOregon]

The problem isn't not enough water, the problem is approving development that doesn't have the resources necessary to support it.

 

[Spartan Squad]

The problem isn't not enough water, the problem is approving development that doesn't have the resources necessary to support it.

The problem is we have 40 million people and a lack of affordable housing. The only way to fix that is to build more supply. The state obliterated local growth control about 5 years ago, so now just about any developer can get clearance to build. But we also have the sustainable water capacity for less than half of our population. We are white knuckling it now. But we constantly have more people coming in and relatively few leaving. So we need more housing.

 

[DanOregon]

That this book not only remains relevant, let alone VITAL, in any discussion on water in the West almost 40 years after publication says a lot.

 

[Twirling Time]

The Santa Anas are expected to pick back up next week — and yet, this fire has been spreading east and the fear is it'll jump the 405, and then it's Katie bar the door. The winds should blow the flames back west, shouldn't they, or do the winds swirl a lot in the basin?

 

[TigerVols]

There'll be time for the blame game later, but the aftermath of this is going to be fascinating to watch.

Besides the problems with insurance, there are already lots of horror stories about the 500 different city and state agencies in Los Angeles and California who are notorious for delaying and denying construction permits, or making it insanely expensive because of onerous regulations.
At the same time, there are an equal number of groups for which destroying large swaths of a major city like L.A. is a wet dream, because it will allow them to rebuild it in their own vision — little or no car access, more high-rises and fewer single-family homes, totally green energy sources, environmental protections, etc. And those groups have both the ear and in many cases the reins of city and state government. This is a once in a century opportunity for them to wipe the board clean of every single obstacle that's been in their way for decades. I doubt they let it pash without trying to make their vision a reality.

Some of those new ideas might not be bad. Fixing California's ancient electric transmission towers and power grid alone could probably stop half of these fires from happening. But they're also going to run head-on into people's desire to quickly rebuild. I heard someone say it often takes several years to get a building permit. How long is it going to take for someone to get one when 100,000 other people are flooding the office with applications?
Karen Bash said she'll try to cut red tape, which ought to be a laugh line in a state that produces it as a leading industry, but what about the state-level stuff like environmental studies? You think the people who live on the beach in Malibu are going to have their expensive new homes rubber-stamped? Or will the California Coastal Commission (among others) find a reason to put the kibosh on it indefinitely?

Basically, rebuilding is not going to be as easy as getting insurance money and finding someone to build a new house. A lot of people might not do it. I'm sure plenty of property owners who were already growing disenchanted or don't want to go through the hashle will be bought out and leave the city or the state. Others who do rebuild — including more than a few who are very rich and politically connected — are about to be smacked around by the monster that is government bureaucracy. How do they respond?
There's a lot of anger toward the mayor and governor now, but will it last until they face re-election in a couple of years?

Lots of stuff to watch down the road. That can wait a few weeks at least, though, until the flames are out.

See that chimney on the lower right? That's our townhome in Ventura in Dec., 2017 when the Thomas Fire burned through our community. Fortunately LA County Fire Engine 135 from Palmdale was there to spray our entire 4 unit building with foam (amazingly enough they were equipped to fight fires at the SkunkWorks back home) so when the 60 year old all-Wood Hawaiian Apartments (the fire behind us) collapsed into our back yard, our building was miraculously saved.

I think the state did a lot right afterwards. One of the main steps it took was pashing a law basically waiving all government red tape. As a result, once the debris from 2,000 burned homes was removed, construction started within weeks. So I'll be curious to see if the legendary foot dragging you're referring to actually happens.

 

[TigerVols]

See that chimney on the lower right? That's our townhome in Ventura in Dec., 2017 when the Thomas Fire burned through our community. Fortunately LA County Fire Engine 135 from Palmdale was there to spray our entire 4 unit building with foam (amazingly enough they were equipped to fight fires at the SkunkWorks back home) so when the 60 year old all-Wood Hawaiian Apartments (the fire behind us) collapsed into our back yard, our building was miraculously saved.

I think the state did a lot right afterwards. One of the main steps it took was pashing a law basically waiving all government red tape. As a result, once the debris from 2,000 burned homes was removed, construction started within weeks. So I'll be curious to see if the legendary foot dragging you're referring to actually happens.

This is afternoon following the scariest night of our lives.

 

[Della9250]

Death toll now up to 24

 

[Twirling Time]

Nerds celebrate: JPL and Mount Wilson both spared from the Eaton Fire.

https://www.astronomy.com/science/n...on-observatory-survive-brush-with-eaton-fire/

Mount Wilson gets ashaulted seemingly every third year, so it should be pretty easy at this point to defend with all the fresh scars.

 

[BitterYoungMatador2]

[
Southern California has been trying to get additional water from Northern California for over 40 years. Environmentalists have fought it off. But it would also be expensive as hell because of the need to build the canal network and also elevate the water. No one has stepped up to the plate with the billions of dollars necessary.

But I think there was enough water in Southern California to fight the fire. The bottleneck was that when the water pipes were originally laid they were not wide enough to handle the demands of the firefighters trying to fill their trucks. The distributions system could have been hooked up to Lake Superior but the firefighters can only remove water from the system as fast as the distributions system can replenish. Production Management 101 teaches that the capacity is always that of your mist restrictive bottleneck.

I've always wondered if trains with tanker cars full of water would be sufficient enough. I saw this on a smaller scale as a cops reporter when you had a huge fire and not enough water. They'd set up a temporary source -- picture a giant inflatable pool -- and shuttle tankers to and from to drop off water. It would have to be a large scale operation but I've always wondered if it was feasible.