Is it time to get rid of cheerleaders and ice girls?

[bigpern23]

Why do you keep calling it a hobby? Just because it is not a traditional sport? I am not going to get into that., though I don't think it's a sport. But it is still a marketable skill. Is it as rare as NFL talent? Of course not, but I am paid for my skill, and they should be as well. As I said, I see them as being in the marketing business.

Because at every level cheerleading has ever existed, it has been a hobby. Is it really a marketable skill? The market for this skill looks pretty shirtty according to the articles referenced.

Again I ask, how much do you believe they should be paid? Who decides how marketable this skill is if not the teams that are paying for the service?

This is simple supply and demand. There are a heck of a lot more girls who are pretty enough and talented enough dancers than there are cheerleading spots available. Don't like the hours and pay? NFL teams have plenty of other women who think it's just great because they enjoy their hobby enough to do so.

There is a legitimate market for professional dancers, where the women are the show. People pay to see those performances. NO ONE pays to see the cheerleaders at NFL game. NO ONE.

So what? There are thousands of NFL employees who aren't getting fans in the seats. In fact, I'd argue the cheerleaders bring more interest than 90 percent of the highly-paid non-playing NFL personnel. And please stop calling it a hobby. Because you think it is not a skill (which it is) or a sport (probably not) doesn't make it a hobby. Lots of people enjoy their jobs. Doesn't make it a hobby. Some people might even think sportswriting is a hobby.

And I don't think there are nearly as many qualified candidates as you think there are.

Again, I never said it's not a skill. I don't believe that at all. These women are skilled and they are talented. That's not a point of contention. But many hobbies require skill.

As for the thousands of NFL employees who are not getting fans into the seats, let's hear some examples.

If there are so few qualified candidates for cheerleading, then why doesn't the NFL value their rare and exceptional skill more? Aren't they worried they're risking running out of qualified cheerleaders?

 

[BDC99]

Do you know how many employees work for an NFL team, in offices and ticket windows and the like. Fans aren't paying to see them either, but they are well compensated. And these women are not being compensated because they never have been, and the league is taking advantage of the idea of young women that this is some prestigious position with some payoff in the form of modeling/etc.
Bottom line for me: They are REQUIRED to attend functions, practices, etc. And if you have anything you are REQUIRED to do, then it is a job and you should be paid. And as was noted already, a lot of people are paid for their hobbies. But it bugs me cheerleading is a hobby. How is it that much different than football, especially at the lower levels where neither is generating money? Because people go to see the football players, not the cheerleaders? So that makes them less worthy? Sure, the skill set is different, but not everyone can do either.

 

[silent_h]

Leaving this here as my contribution:

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/76061588/nfl-cheerleaders-exploitation-lawsuits-for-working-rights-minimum-wage

 

[BDC99]

Leaving this here as my contribution:

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/76061588/nfl-cheerleaders-exploitation-lawsuits-for-working-rights-minimum-wage

Thanks for that. I don't see how anyone can side with the league and teams on this. Good read.

The gig required Sarah to take fitness classes, maintain a winter tan, get her hair and makeup done by professionals. She had to pay those costs out of her own pocket. She spent six to eight hours a week practicing dance routines with her teammates. As far as she knows, no one was paid for that time. Over a seven-month period, she made more than a dozen public appearances with the cheer squad, promoting ... the cheer squad. She wasn't paid for those, either. She appeared in a swimsuit calendar and sold at least 100 copies herself -- didn't see a dime. Received a single complimentary copy.

 

[BDC99]

Left off the best (worst) part. Again, paying for the privilege of enjoying her hobby.

At the end of the NFL season, Sarah claims, she finally received a paycheck, for a whopping $375. Her expenses for the year totaled more than $2,500.

And another good point made in there. How many clicks are the cheerleaders generating on the team's web site? The more I read about these women's treatment, the more pissed off I get. Well, not pissed off, but still ...

 

[Walter Lippmann]

If you go by bigpern's line of thinking, journalists should just shut up about low wages and layoffs.

 

[BDC99]

Pretty much. We know what we're getting into.

 

[jr/shotglass]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6mpHW3SMcc

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Why do you keep calling it a hobby? Just because it is not a traditional sport? I am not going to get into that., though I don't think it's a sport. But it is still a marketable skill. Is it as rare as NFL talent? Of course not, but I am paid for my skill, and they should be as well. As I said, I see them as being in the marketing business.

Because at every level cheerleading has ever existed, it has been a hobby. Is it really a marketable skill? The market for this skill looks pretty shirtty according to the articles referenced.

Again I ask, how much do you believe they should be paid? Who decides how marketable this skill is if not the teams that are paying for the service?

This is simple supply and demand. There are a heck of a lot more girls who are pretty enough and talented enough dancers than there are cheerleading spots available. Don't like the hours and pay? NFL teams have plenty of other women who think it's just great because they enjoy their hobby enough to do so.

There is a legitimate market for professional dancers, where the women are the show. People pay to see those performances. NO ONE pays to see the cheerleaders at NFL game. NO ONE.

There is a minimum wage in this country for a reason, and it is to ensure that workers actually get compensated for doing their work. That was designed so that companies couldn't get away anymore with not paying employees on a whim, or making them work for company scrip, or any number of reasons. The market begins at minimum wage for that purpose.

Cheerleaders may not have much in terms of marketability as individuals, but as a group, they certainly would. According to this, the Cowboys' cheerleaders generate about $1 million a year in revenue for the team:

http://www.sportspromedia.com/notes_and_insights/dallas_cowboys_cheerleaders_make_us1_million_for_franchise

According to the Cowboys' web site, they have 36 cheerleaders

http://www.dallascowboyscheerleaders.com/articles/news/2014-dcc-squad-announced/

(link may be considered NSFW)

They make $150 a game, which is actually pretty good in comparison to other teams. But they don't get paid for practices.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/the-shockingly-low-salaries-of-professional-cheerleaders/283299/

Which means the Cowboys pay a total of $5,400 to their 36 cheerleaders per game, or $54,000 per season (10 games: 8 games, 2 preseason)

Meanwhile, if they are treated like other teams' cheerleaders, they don't get paid for practices, or personal appearances (other than "charity" ones, which I would think, the team would be the one designating those as such).

If you figure they spend 8 hours at the stadium (4 hours prep time, 3+ hours for the game, whatever time after), that's 80 hours. Add the six hours a week of training (Baltimore's is from April to January, so we'll go with that), and, for estimating sake, say it's 40 weeks, that's another 240 hours. So we're up to 320 hours to get paid $1,500. And we're not counting "charity" appearances or anything like that.

Not even minimum wage for a business in which they are quite marketable as a group. Pay them $7.50 an hour for those 320 hours, and they're each making $2,400. If they also are paid for their personal appearances, it'd be even more.

So yes, if it is considered a job, the cheerleaders aren't receiving their legally just compensation.

 

[bigpern23]

Do you know how many employees work for an NFL team, in offices and ticket windows and the like. Fans aren't paying to see them either, but they are well compensated. And these women are not being compensated because they never have been, and the league is taking advantage of the idea of young women that this is some prestigious position with some payoff in the form of modeling/etc.

Surely you're not equating the service a beer vendor or ticket taker provides to the service cheerleaders provide. People who work in stadium operations are quite a bit different than a cheerleader, as I'm sure you're aware. I know I don't need to explain the difference to you because you're not a stupid person. NFL fans don't pay to see the janitor or the ticket taker, but the stadium could not operate without them. NFL teams don't lose anything if the cheerleaders decide they aren't being paid fairly and quit. Take the beer vendor out of an NFL stadium and what do you think happens?

 

[bigpern23]

Left off the best (worst) part. Again, paying for the privilege of enjoying her hobby.

At the end of the NFL season, Sarah claims, she finally received a paycheck, for a whopping $375. Her expenses for the year totaled more than $2,500.

Most people pay to enjoy their hobby.

And another good point made in there. How many clicks are the cheerleaders generating on the team's web site? The more I read about these women's treatment, the more pissed off I get. Well, not pissed off, but still ...

And again, I'm with you on this. Cheerleaders should be compensated for use of their image.

 

[bigpern23]

If you go by bigpern's line of thinking, journalists should just shut up about low wages and layoffs.

Again, the distinction is that journalism is a career. Cheerleading is a hobby.

That said, journalists who are unhappy with shirtty pay, worse hours and job insecurity should absolutely go find another line of work. I did, and I'm much happier for it.