Jordan Neely killing/Daniel Penny charges

[The Big Ragu]

It'd have to be something that merited a 15-minute chokehold that a trained ex-Marine might know might kill someone.

I suspect there is going to be a defense argument of some sort that he didn't know it might / could kill someone. I don't know what they will come up with to that effect, but I strongly suspect it's going to be something like: 1) The U.S. government trained him in the maneuver, 2) They taught him that it's a way to disable someone, 3) They didn't teach that there is a significant risk of death involved.

We all know that there is a significant risk of death, it's why police forces have banned chokeholds, but I totally wouldn't be surprised if the defense is going to try to put the blame on the marines / U.S. government, which apparently is still teaching chokeholds in basic training even after others have banned it.

 

[Azrael]

Not sure that defense will work.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/05/jordan-neely-death-subway-chokehold-marine-military.html

If anything, his Marine training might make it harder to defend the chokehold.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Not sure that defense will hold.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/05/jordan-neely-death-subway-chokehold-marine-military.html

That story reads like a moral argument. It doesn't address the legal issue. He's going to be arguing that he wasn't reckless and taking an unjustifiable risk to human life (the element that would make it manslaughter). That story doesn't address precisely what the marines taught him about chokeholds and the risk of them causing death, which is what matters in the courtroom.

We all know that chokeholds are dangerous. We know that the DOJ outlawed them two years ago for federal law enforcement agencies because they were too often leading to tragedy, and they said they are inherently dangerous. But that is precisely why I think that his defense will try to suggest that despite that knowledge, the marines still teach it as a way to subdue someone, not as a method of inflicting deadly force. Which if argued that way would be, "Neely couldn't have been acting recklessly based on what he knew. Blame it on the U.S. government / marines."

 

[Azrael]

That story reads like a moral argument. It doesn't address the legal issue. He's going to be arguing that he wasn't reckless and taking an unjustifiable risk to human life (the element that would make it manslaughter). That story doesn't address precisely what the marines taught him about chokeholds and the risk of them causing death, which is what matters in the courtroom.

We all know that chokeholds are dangerous. We know that the DOJ outlawed them two years ago for federal law enforcement agencies because they were too often leading to tragedy, and they said they are inherently dangerous. But that is precisely why I think that his defense will try to suggest that despite that knowledge, the marines still teach it as a way to subdue someone, not as a method of inflicting deadly force. Which if argued that way would be, "Neely couldn't have been acting recklessly based on what he knew. Blame it on the U.S. government / marines."

We'll see.

https://www.marines.mil/News/News-D...co-c-recruits-learn-responsible-use-of-force/

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Every single person taught a rear naked choke is told it will kill the victim if not released quickly. There is no way a Marine wouldn't know that.

 

[Azrael]

The Good Samaritan / Blame George Soros counternarrative has already built up quite a head of steam.

 

[doctorquant]

I for one am stunned that this became political.

 

[doctorquant]

And it's especially surprising that the "bad" people have decided to square off against the "good" people.

 

[Azrael]

And it's especially surprising that the "bad" people have decided to square off against the "good" people.

Locally anyway, those two groups are pretty tangled up.

And the whole thing brings a lot of confusing and competing interests and approaches into conflict.

Our mayor for example. Former cop, but also nominally a Democrat. Floods the subway with foot patrols.

And this still happens. And his immediate response to it is kinda murky.

Good guy? Or bad guy?

 

[MisterCreosote]

I'm stunned to see so many "conservative" "Christians" fundamentally misinterpret one of religion's most well-known parables.

 

[doctorquant]

I'm stunned to see so many "conservative" "Christians" fundamentally misinterpret one of religion's most well-known parables.

Don't forget "misunderstood."

 

[MisterCreosote]

Every single person taught a rear naked choke is told it will kill the victim if not released quickly. There is no way a Marine wouldn't know that.

Exactly. The video I saw is three minutes long and Neely is unconscious AND being choked out the whole time. And being "restrained" by two other donks on top of that.

At no time in that video is anyone but Neely under imminent threat.