Off of soccer, answer this....quantify Bobby Cox's managerial lifeline

[buckweaver]

People have always thought that Cito was capable of no more than filling out the lineup card -- the team was so talented it basically managed itself. He's never been able to shake that.

And every manager of a 110-win club that didn't win the World Series says, "Yeah, you wish it managed itself."

 

[djc3317]

the point was, that was the best they've done. that's the best lineup the braves have trotted out, since that's the one year they won the title. two guys over .280. leadoff man hit .258. three guys at .253 or lower. It was a great team, don't get me wrong, but it looks a helluva lot worse without maddux, glavine and smoltz starting and wohlers (when he was good) slamming the door.

That's a flawed logic.

yeah, I didn't really mean it literally. I just meant that it was the one lineup that won the whole thing, and that it wasn't fearsome. It came out a little too lazily thanks to a few too many tasty adult beverages.

 

[novelist_wannabe]

no, the dog's right.
nixon's one of the two decent leadoff guys. I'm ashuming the other one he means is furcal. the only thing they've had less consistently than a decent leadoff hitter is a good closer.

while there were a couple years where they were okay in the 6-8 spots in the lineup, let's not overdo it...even maybe when they had young, powerful klesko, young chipper and young javy (like the only year they won the title), the team was far from being an offensive juggernaut.

95 lineup
cf grissom .258 12 HR 42 RBI
3b jones .265 23 HR 86 RBI
rf justice .253 24 HR 78 RBI
1b mcgriff .280 27 HR 93 RBI
lf klesko .310 23 HR 70 RBI
c lopez .315 14 HR 51 RBI
ss blauser .211 12 HR 31 RBI
2b lemke .253 5 HR 38 RBI

that doesn't exactly strike fear into your heart. the braves always got it done with pitching. the lineup and the bullpen have almost always been full of holes.

There was plenty of speed and power in that lineup. '95 was a truncated season after the strike, otherwise they could have had four guys with 30-plus homers.

Maybe, but I doubt it. I realize I'm splitting hairs here, but the season was shortened by 18 games. McGriff would amost certainly have reached 30. Klesko and Chipper would have had to hit seven more (seven in 18 games is a pace for 63 over a full season) and Justice would have had to hit six (a 54 pace). Probably stretching it to think they could have all gotten to 30. Still a potent lineup though, and a lot of homers aren't always a world championship indicator anyway. While the last six world series winners have had at least one 30-homer guy, the previous four did not. In the Yankees' three-straight run, only Bernie Williams in 2000 had 30.

(god, I love baseballreference.com)

 

[Armchair_QB]

Yeah, but fearsome in what way?

That every slugger 1-9 could knock you out of the park? By that definition, no.

Or that the entire lineup 1-9, plus bench, could beat you in a number of different ways, especially in the clutch? Because then, you'd have to say, yes. Those '95 Braves were "fearsome."

Exactly. Baseball hasn't always been about hitting home runs. Look at that line-up. If you're a pitcher there isn't a break in there from 1-8. You've got to pitch your ash off every single at-bat.

When a pitcher is standing on the mound thinking "fork, now I've got to face THIS guy too," that's the definition of fearsome.

 

[Starman]

Cito's still getting robbed to this day. What an injustice.

Consider:

Blue Jays manager, 1989-1997
9 seasons (683-636 record, .518)
4 division titles
2 AL pennants
2 World Series titles

Never got a managerial job before 1989. Never got a managerial job after 1997. Why is this?

Who knows. In the meantime, Jim Leyland, with a career record under .500, 9 losing seasons in 14 years as a manager, and who has also abruptly quit every MLB job he has ever had, is snapped up. Go figure.

 

[novelist_wannabe]

Paging Mr. Whitlock ... Mr. Whitlock ... your high horse awaits you at the loge level concierge deck.