Running 2023-24 Hot Stove Thread

[Cosmo]

I'm 65 years old. The Tigers won the World Series when I was 10 and then again when I was 26. I've never seen the Lions play for the NFL championship.

My Dad is 88. The Tigers won the World Series when he was 10 and then again when he was 33 and then again when he was 49. Three times in 88 seasons. He was in college the last time the Lions won a title.

Hall of Famer Al Kaline only appeared in one World Series. Hall of Famer Alan Trammell and should-have-been Lou Whitaker? One World Series.

Only Guardians/Browns and perhaps Twins/Vikings fans can truly appreciate the amount of effort it takes to remain addicted to baseball and football following decades of mediocrity.

The only bright spot? We moved from Detroit when I was 2, so I never had to live there. I'm a victim of bad baseball genetics.

Kind of similar here.

I'm 47. Redskins won three Super Bowls by the time I was 16. I believe two playoff wins in the 31 years since.

I was 7 when the Orioles won the World Series and I didn't pay attention to baseball at that point in my life. Haven't been back to the WS series with only sporadic playoff appearances. The future does look incredibly bright at least.

Became a Suns fan when I was 12. At least I've seen them compete in two NBA Finals but still waiting on that title.

Who'da thunk the Capitals would deliver the only championship of my adult life? But damn, 2018 feels like a long time ago now...

 

[maumann]

Sports fandom is somewhat like the argument between predestination and free will. How do we chose, and why do we root for laundry?

The Tigers will never send flowers to my funeral -- my mother's great quote -- but somehow I can't divorce myself from them, either. All my little kid heroes are dead or dying, and I'm old enough to be Jim Leyland's third base coach. But my attention will turn to Lakeland in February, just like it has every spring because maybe this time things will be different!

At some point, you look back and wonder "has it really been worth it?" Just because the Tigers beat the Yankees at my first major league game (and Ernie Harwell was on the radio every night when we visited my grandparents every summer), why didn't I like the Astros or Angels (or even the Mays-Marichal-McCovey Giants) better? Why not the A's -- oh God, my 1972 hatred still burns like a furnace that will never be extinguished -- who were the closest MLB team when I was in high school?

If in 1968, Horton doesn't throw out Brock in Game 5 and Northrup line a triple over Flood's head in Game 7, would I have spent the last 55 years waiting for lightning to strike three times (thank goodness for 1984)? The Dodgers have great uniforms and Vin Scully, even though he buried a hooker in the desert. Why not them? Or the Expos, who trained in West Palm and had cool three-color hats?

I have a Braves hat (courtesy of Turner Sports) but I don't feel any connection to the team, even though they've been way more fun to watch for the past three decades. And they need to shelve the Chop and change the nickname, to be honest.

The good thing is the overwhelming majority of us can't answer that question any more than I can.

God love sports.

 

[UPChip]

Sports fandom is somewhat like the argument between predestination and free will. How do we chose, and why do we root for laundry?

The Tigers will never send flowers to my funeral -- my mother's great quote -- but somehow I can't divorce myself from them, either. All my little kid heroes are dead or dying, and I'm old enough to be Jim Leyland's third base coach. But my attention will turn to Lakeland in February, just like it has every spring because maybe this time things will be different!

At some point, you look back and wonder "has it really been worth it?" Just because the Tigers beat the Yankees at my first major league game (and Ernie Harwell was on the radio every night when we visited my grandparents every summer), why didn't I like the Astros or Angels (or even the Mays-Marichal-McCovey Giants) better? Why not the A's -- oh God, my 1972 hatred still burns like a furnace that will never be extinguished -- who were the closest MLB team when I was in high school?

If in 1968, Horton doesn't throw out Brock in Game 5 and Northrup line a triple over Flood's head in Game 7, would I have spent the last 55 years waiting for lightning to strike three times (thank goodness for 1984)? The Dodgers have great uniforms and Vin Scully, even though he buried a hooker in the desert. Why not them? Or the Expos, who trained in West Palm and had cool three-color hats?

I have a Braves hat (courtesy of Turner Sports) but I don't feel any connection to the team, even though they've been way more fun to watch for the past three decades. And they need to shelve the Chop and change the nickname, to be honest.

The good thing is the overwhelming majority of us can't answer that question any more than I can.

God love sports.

1. I don't know if the Vin Scully line was just a turn of phrase, but that certainly leads to some interesting mental pictures (and sounds).

2. I think the 2006-2016 Tigers are really worth a lot more examination than they've gotten from history. Managed to have the greatest pitcher and the greatest right-handed hitter of their generation, won two pennants, four division titles, a Wild Card (and came a game short of a sixth in 2016), and then won one World Series game in nine attempts. That is a record of sustained success that is enviable for everything except the rings. In fact, I think it's kind of in line with the other 110-or-so years of the franchise. Ty Cobb was the greatest player of his generation, they win the AL pennant three years in a row and lose the World Series each time. The 1945 team that won the World Series had fewer wins than the 1940 club that lost it and the 1946 club, which finished second in the AL. The '61 Tigers win 101 games and are still somehow nowhere near a pennant. Tigers lose the ALCS with home-field advantage in both 1972 and 1987. The 2006 team absolutely shirts the bed in the last two weeks of the regular season, backs into a Wild Card, then wins seven straight games and the club's first pennant in a generation. Of Detroit's four consecutive division winners from 2011-15, the one with the fewest wins is the one that goes to the World Series.

It's like the Tigers can be winners or champions but not both.

 

[UNCGrad]

Wonderful piece by Joe Pos on his Substack about Benetti: Friday Rewind: Jason Benetti's New Frontier

 

[UNCGrad]

I can never love @maumann's posts enough, but friend, this is baseball. It is, at its heart, baseball. It is literally why we can't give it up, and, when it does actually happen, why it is so sweet and satisfying.

I got 2016 for my Cubs, and as frustrating as every season as been since, I still have 2016. I only ever asked for one. (And god, I want one more now.)

I remember taking our kid to Disney World in 2008, wearing a Cubs t shirt and being in line with Philly folks. And I remember more than one of them saying, "Just wait until it happens for you. You have no idea. When it happens, it will have all been worth it."

It was.

I know it sucks (sorry about Javy. God, I love(d) Javy.) But, when it happens, it will be amazing.

Sports fandom is somewhat like the argument between predestination and free will. How do we chose, and why do we root for laundry?

The Tigers will never send flowers to my funeral -- my mother's great quote -- but somehow I can't divorce myself from them, either. All my little kid heroes are dead or dying, and I'm old enough to be Jim Leyland's third base coach. But my attention will turn to Lakeland in February, just like it has every spring because maybe this time things will be different!

At some point, you look back and wonder "has it really been worth it?" Just because the Tigers beat the Yankees at my first major league game (and Ernie Harwell was on the radio every night when we visited my grandparents every summer), why didn't I like the Astros or Angels (or even the Mays-Marichal-McCovey Giants) better? Why not the A's -- oh God, my 1972 hatred still burns like a furnace that will never be extinguished -- who were the closest MLB team when I was in high school?

If in 1968, Horton doesn't throw out Brock in Game 5 and Northrup line a triple over Flood's head in Game 7, would I have spent the last 55 years waiting for lightning to strike three times (thank goodness for 1984)? The Dodgers have great uniforms and Vin Scully, even though he buried a hooker in the desert. Why not them? Or the Expos, who trained in West Palm and had cool three-color hats?

I have a Braves hat (courtesy of Turner Sports) but I don't feel any connection to the team, even though they've been way more fun to watch for the past three decades. And they need to shelve the Chop and change the nickname, to be honest.

The good thing is the overwhelming majority of us can't answer that question any more than I can.

God love sports.

 

[tapintoamerica]

Sports fandom is somewhat like the argument between predestination and free will. How do we chose, and why do we root for laundry?

The Tigers will never send flowers to my funeral -- my mother's great quote -- but somehow I can't divorce myself from them, either. All my little kid heroes are dead or dying, and I'm old enough to be Jim Leyland's third base coach. But my attention will turn to Lakeland in February, just like it has every spring because maybe this time things will be different!

At some point, you look back and wonder "has it really been worth it?" Just because the Tigers beat the Yankees at my first major league game (and Ernie Harwell was on the radio every night when we visited my grandparents every summer), why didn't I like the Astros or Angels (or even the Mays-Marichal-McCovey Giants) better? Why not the A's -- oh God, my 1972 hatred still burns like a furnace that will never be extinguished -- who were the closest MLB team when I was in high school?

If in 1968, Horton doesn't throw out Brock in Game 5 and Northrup line a triple over Flood's head in Game 7, would I have spent the last 55 years waiting for lightning to strike three times (thank goodness for 1984)? The Dodgers have great uniforms and Vin Scully, even though he buried a hooker in the desert. Why not them? Or the Expos, who trained in West Palm and had cool three-color hats?

I have a Braves hat (courtesy of Turner Sports) but I don't feel any connection to the team, even though they've been way more fun to watch for the past three decades. And they need to shelve the Chop and change the nickname, to be honest.

The good thing is the overwhelming majority of us can't answer that question any more than I can.

God love sports.

Well said.
If my team signs Trevor Bauer or some other Trumpist asshole this offseason, I'll be irate. And after about five minutes, I'll start wondering where and when Opening Day is.

 

[qtlaw]

I can never love @maumann's posts enough, but friend, this is baseball. It is, at its heart, baseball. It is literally why we can't give it up, and, when it does actually happen, why it is so sweet and satisfying.

I got 2016 for my Cubs, and as frustrating as every season as been since, I still have 2016. I only ever asked for one. (And god, I want one more now.)

I remember taking our kid to Disney World in 2008, wearing a Cubs t shirt and being in line with Philly folks. And I remember more than one of them saying, "Just wait until it happens for you. You have no idea. When it happens, it will have all been worth it."

It was.

I know it sucks (sorry about Javy. God, I love(d) Javy.) But, when it happens, it will be amazing.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

I know Giants won 3 in 5 but nothing beats 2010; after 2002, I thought after 40 yrs they were never going to win the WS in my lifetime.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

I think part of the problem (for lack of a better expression) is that it's hard for us all to reconcile the baseball with which we grew up (you need to be great for six months just to have a chance to compete for the World Series) with what baseball is now (just be slightly better than mediocre for six months to get a chance to be great in October). It is hard to conceptualize of the Tigers being very good, never mind great, over a full season anytime soon. But they play in the right division--with the perpetually awful Royals & White Sox, the perpetually thrifty Guardians and the perpetually meh Twins--to just hang around and hope to catch lightning in a bottle come October. They've got enough pieces to be dangerous in a short series. If Zac Gallen, Merrill Kelly & Brandon Pfaadt could be the top three in a World Series rotation, why not Tarik Skubal, Casey Mize & TBA? I'll believe AJ Hinch can be a difference-making manager when he's not being propped up by a spate of cheating Hall of Famers and the cheatingest front office in history when I see it, but baseball's made anything possible.

 

[maumann]

It really has become "just get in and win." Although there is the beautiful agony of the ebb and flow of a 162-game season, culminating in a September full of scoreboard watching, sweating over every pitch and of course, second guessing every decision that could make or break your team's chances of advancing.

It'd just be nice to not be mathematically eliminated by Labor Day.

 

[outofplace]

Sports fandom is somewhat like the argument between predestination and free will. How do we chose, and why do we root for laundry?

The Tigers will never send flowers to my funeral -- my mother's great quote -- but somehow I can't divorce myself from them, either. All my little kid heroes are dead or dying, and I'm old enough to be Jim Leyland's third base coach. But my attention will turn to Lakeland in February, just like it has every spring because maybe this time things will be different!

At some point, you look back and wonder "has it really been worth it?" Just because the Tigers beat the Yankees at my first major league game (and Ernie Harwell was on the radio every night when we visited my grandparents every summer), why didn't I like the Astros or Angels (or even the Mays-Marichal-McCovey Giants) better? Why not the A's -- oh God, my 1972 hatred still burns like a furnace that will never be extinguished -- who were the closest MLB team when I was in high school?

If in 1968, Horton doesn't throw out Brock in Game 5 and Northrup line a triple over Flood's head in Game 7, would I have spent the last 55 years waiting for lightning to strike three times (thank goodness for 1984)? The Dodgers have great uniforms and Vin Scully, even though he buried a hooker in the desert. Why not them? Or the Expos, who trained in West Palm and had cool three-color hats?

I have a Braves hat (courtesy of Turner Sports) but I don't feel any connection to the team, even though they've been way more fun to watch for the past three decades. And they need to shelve the Chop and change the nickname, to be honest.

The good thing is the overwhelming majority of us can't answer that question any more than I can.

God love sports.

Well put.

It is difficult to explain what teams capture our passions and why they matter so much to us. It was a little easier for me until it wasn't. I was born in Pittsburgh in the early '70s, so I was pretty much predestined to love the Steelers and Pirates. My father took us to Steelers games even before I cared. He wasn't a baseball guy, but my aunt loved it and she had a friend with season tickets, so that was my hook-up to see the Pirates play. Like most sports fans in Pittsburgh at the time, I ignored the Penguins until 1984, when Mario Lemieux arrived. I'm looking up at a signed jersey of his as I type this and I am still a Penguins fan, but they never got to me quite like the Steelers.

I've questioned if being a devoted Steelers fan was worth it at times. I never wavered in the mediocrity of the 80s or the mixed results of the '90s and early 2000s, all while they looked for a quarterback. No, it was after they found another one bound for the Hall of Fame that I questioned if they were worth the devotion because he turned out to be a lowlife. Mike Tomlin didn't help when he briefly brought in Michael Vick as a backup, but ultimately, I knew that every team has its share of players I wouldn't want to hang out with.

The Pirates are another matter entirely. I can stick with a team through bad decisions and poor play. I stuck with them through the early '80s. It was the early '90s that broke me of a team I once rooted for passionately. I saw them build a contender, complete with the best player in the National League. I saw penny-pinching ownership trade some stars and let others leave in free agency. Bonds and Doug Drabek leaving after the '92 team made the LCS was the last straw. It's not just a conscious decision. I just can't bring myself to care if they win or lose. I still pay some attention, mostly mocking them or angrily ripping an owner who has ruined the franchise I grew up cheering, but my heart just isn't in it.

 

[jr/shotglass]

Had to be.

 

[MTM]

Sad news from San Diego.

Padres Chairman & Owner Peter Seidler Passes Away | by FriarWire | Nov, 2023 | FriarWire (mlblogs.com)

As many know, Seidler's mother is Walter O'Malley's daughter and she owned half of the Dodgers with brother Peter after Walter died. When I worked at Dodger Stadium as an usher, many of the Seidler children did too (there were a bunch of them). I didn't know Peter but was work friends with his brother Mike. Those kids worked as hard as anyone else and didn't expect any special treatment (although I'm sure they got it. None of them were working in the bleachers). I always appreciated how down to Earth they were. Some ushers were offspring of front office personnel or former players and would act as if they owned the stadium. The Seidlers actually did OWN the stadium, but never acted that way.