No No. 4 in Super Bowl 44: The Running Thread

[crimsonace]

Did anyone say "Brees has a better team around him!!!!!" BEFORE this Super Bowl?

I would have, only if having seen the Colts the last few years, they are a seriously-flawed team -- one-dimensional on offense, not very strong on defense, worst coverage/return teams in the NFL. They are very good in a few areas, but they remind me a lot of the 1980s Dolphins -- and yet they manage to mask it and have a lot of success.

 

[93Devil]

All great quarterbacks lose more than one big game. That's because they get to play in more of them than anyone else.

True. Even Montana and Brady and Bradshaw and Aikman lost some big games.

I guess the thing with Manning is that he's lost far more of them than the first three. I'm not pinning tonight on him - even if he ends up throwing a TD instead of a pick-6, the Saints may very well have driven down the field and kicked a walk-off field goal to win 27-24. But the number of rings don't lie - for all of his regular season success, he only has one ring. The other four have at least three, and two have four.

Yeah, but those four are probably about 45-10 in big games.

 

[crimsonace]

All great quarterbacks lose more than one big game. That's because they get to play in more of them than anyone else.

True. Even Montana and Brady and Bradshaw and Aikman lost some big games.

I guess the thing with Manning is that he's lost far more of them than the first three. I'm not pinning tonight on him - even if he ends up throwing a TD instead of a pick-6, the Saints may very well have driven down the field and kicked a walk-off field goal to win 27-24. But the number of rings don't lie - for all of his regular season success, he only has one ring. The other four have at least three, and two have four.

He has one more ring than Marino, who by anyone's estimation has to be in that conversation, too.

 

[zagoshe]

All great quarterbacks lose more than one big game. That's because they get to play in more of them than anyone else.

True. Even Montana and Brady and Bradshaw and Aikman lost some big games.

I guess the thing with Manning is that he's lost far more of them than the first three. I'm not pinning tonight on him - even if he ends up throwing a TD instead of a pick-6, the Saints may very well have driven down the field and kicked a walk-off field goal to win 27-24. But the number of rings don't lie - for all of his regular season success, he only has one ring. The other four have at least three, and two have four.

How many of those "big game" losses that you are talking about did Manning lose with the better team?

He lost twice in the AFC title game on the road against one of the great dynasties of all-time.

He lost twice to the Chargers and mostly because that is a horrible matchup for the Colts.

The only big game he's lost in which he had the better team was against the Steelers. One time.

That is it.

 

[armageddon]

All great quarterbacks lose more than one big game. That's because they get to play in more of them than anyone else.

True. Even Montana and Brady and Bradshaw and Aikman lost some big games.

I guess the thing with Manning is that he's lost far more of them than the first three. I'm not pinning tonight on him - even if he ends up throwing a TD instead of a pick-6, the Saints may very well have driven down the field and kicked a walk-off field goal to win 27-24. But the number of rings don't lie - for all of his regular season success, he only has one ring. The other four have at least three, and two have four.

I believe that quartet lost one Super Bowl -- combined.

 

[zagoshe]

All great quarterbacks lose more than one big game. That's because they get to play in more of them than anyone else.

True. Even Montana and Brady and Bradshaw and Aikman lost some big games.

I guess the thing with Manning is that he's lost far more of them than the first three. I'm not pinning tonight on him - even if he ends up throwing a TD instead of a pick-6, the Saints may very well have driven down the field and kicked a walk-off field goal to win 27-24. But the number of rings don't lie - for all of his regular season success, he only has one ring. The other four have at least three, and two have four.

I believe that quartet lost one Super Bowl -- combined.

And I'll ask again -- how many of Aikman's Super Bowls were against superior teams? How about Montana's?

You want to tell me Brady's over the Rams qualifies as that fine, but that is cancelled by him losing to the Giants.

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

Kim's getting knocked up tonight. Bank on it.

Was thinking the same thing. There's going to be some bodily fluids being swapped before dawn.

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

Did anyone say "Brees has a better team around him!!!!!" BEFORE this Super Bowl?

Yes, I did - which is why I picked them to win 27-17.

And I think most people felt they had a better running game and more balanced offense, better special teams and a defense that was similar to the Colts only more opportunistic...

But keep trying to convince yourself that nobody respected the Saints before the game because Tony Dungy picked the Colts.... :

I didn;t say anything of the sort.

I just think it's funny that "Wow, Manning threw a key pick there" is responded to with "The Saints clearly have a better team around BREES!!!!"

That's bullshirt. No one felt that way - OK, zagoshe, in your latest effort to be contrary for the sake of it, maybe you did - before the damn game.

 

[Flying Headbutt]

Me and Zag are agreeing again. Holy shirt. I must be drunk.

Peyton Manning is one of the two best QBs in the history of the NFL. The idea that he's a choker or that this game is on him is bogus. Totally bogus.

I don't think it's fair to put the entire game on him. I think it is fair to say that the rush to anoint him the GOAT -- which, for example, Judy Battista was throwing out there in the NYT this morning -- had the brakes thrown on it in a major way. Garcon really screwed the whole momentum of the Colts offense with that early drop when Manning threw a great ball, but still... All-time greats don't throw that pick at the end. They lead their team to a score. Period. You can whine and whine and whine about all the other stuff, but he needed to make a better read there.

I see where a few SportsJournalists.com O-Coordinators (and others) are trying to say it's was Wayne's fault. Sorry, no. It was a perfect read by Porter. He knew that was Manning's and Wayne's go-to route, and he jumped it. Great anticipation, great film study.

No question that one interception was on Manning more than anyone else. But just that one play. I still consider Manning an all time great among the greatest ever. But that pick doesn't help my argument.

 

[cjericho]

All great quarterbacks lose more than one big game. That's because they get to play in more of them than anyone else.

True. Even Montana and Brady and Bradshaw and Aikman lost some big games.

I guess the thing with Manning is that he's lost far more of them than the first three. I'm not pinning tonight on him - even if he ends up throwing a TD instead of a pick-6, the Saints may very well have driven down the field and kicked a walk-off field goal to win 27-24. But the number of rings don't lie - for all of his regular season success, he only has one ring. The other four have at least three, and two have four.

How many of those "big game" losses that you are talking about did Manning lose with the better team?

He lost twice in the AFC title game on the road against one of the great dynasties of all-time.

He lost twice to the Chargers and mostly because that is a horrible matchup for the Colts.

The only big game he's lost in which he had the better team was against the Steelers. One time.

That is it.

re: SD loss, also because Baylor could've done a better job stopping Sproles than the Colts did that night.

 

[mojo20205]

Since 2001 here's the quarterbacks that Manning has lost to in the playoffs:
Ben Roethlisberger
Steve McNair (with Tennessee)
Chad Pennington
Tom Brady (twice)
Phillip Rivers (twice)
Drew Brees
Jay Fiedler

And here are the ones he's beaten:
Jake Plummer (twice)
Trent Green (twice)
Tom Brady (the signature win of his career)
McNair (with Ravens)
Rex Grossman
Joe Flacco
Mark Sanchez

 

[Flying Headbutt]

Wait, it was Manning one-on-one with those guys? Really?