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Ukraine Always Get What You Want
- Thread starter TigerVols
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WriteThinking
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This move, and pulling all military aid to Ukraine, has been the most hateful, unforgivable thing that Trump has done in my book -- and all without anything demanded of or taken from Russia, the aggressor in this fight. It is pure, unadulterated evil immorality that goes against all of the United States' stated principles throughout its history.
Trump wants peace? He sure has a funny way of showing it. He wants Ukraine's natural resources, that's all (and is willing to extort a war-victim country to get them). Our President is a criminal abomination who needs to be removed from office. How/why is our government not making noises to that effect?
SixToe
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He's protected by the House and Senate Muskpublicans who fear not being re-elected. That's it.
They're all slimy. They all do evil ship. But their No. 1 goal and daily objective is to get re-elected. So they let him do whatever he wants.
They're all slimy. They all do evil ship. But their No. 1 goal and daily objective is to get re-elected. So they let him do whatever he wants.
WriteThinking
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I know his country is suffering, and in a bad way, but Zelensky should tell Trump to just fork off. Trump isn't going to help him or Ukraine, anyway.
I truly wonder how Donald Trump lives with himself.
MSN
US President Donald Trump has made it clear that he will not restore aid to Ukraine after signing a mineral deal. He also wants to see changes in President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's approach to negotiations, NBC News report.
According to a US administration representative and another American official, Trump has privately told his aides that the signed agreement will not be enough to restore aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine.
Officials revealed that Trump wants the deal, which would give the US a stake in Ukraine's mineral resources, to be signed. However, he also wants to see changes in Zelenskyy's approach to peace negotiations, particularly a willingness to make concessions, such as ceding territory to Russia.
Sources from the publication note that Trump wants Zelenskyy to make a move toward elections in Ukraine and possibly step down.
I truly wonder how Donald Trump lives with himself.
MSN
US President Donald Trump has made it clear that he will not restore aid to Ukraine after signing a mineral deal. He also wants to see changes in President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's approach to negotiations, NBC News report.
According to a US administration representative and another American official, Trump has privately told his aides that the signed agreement will not be enough to restore aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine.
Officials revealed that Trump wants the deal, which would give the US a stake in Ukraine's mineral resources, to be signed. However, he also wants to see changes in Zelenskyy's approach to peace negotiations, particularly a willingness to make concessions, such as ceding territory to Russia.
Sources from the publication note that Trump wants Zelenskyy to make a move toward elections in Ukraine and possibly step down.
WriteThinking
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This is a depressing read on the state of things, mostly revolving around the fact that Russia and the U.S. are now essentially allies.
MSN
Most likely, the Russian economy, placed on an unsustainable war footing, would have collapsed within a year, with heavy battlefield losses continuing to undermine popular backing for Vladimir Putin's "special military operation". He would have been forced to sue for peace – and left in a weakened position at home and abroad, vulnerable to a coup.
Instead, he is being richly rewarded for his aggression. It is Europe's worst nightmare. While Mr Zelensky is being asked to accept the dismemberment of his country, Russia will not only rule large tracts of Ukraine but also win the dismantling of Nato, replaced by a bizarre partnership between America and Russia.
It's a disgrace, but it is now a fact of life – and has to be dealt with. Thus, a Carthaginian peace perversely imposed on Ukraine must be avoided. That would turn it from a sovereign nation into an emasculated vashal state of Russia, banned from the European Union and Nato, and deprived of armed forces, adequate security guarantees or control of its own natural resources.
That is not acceptable to Ukraine – or the rest of Europe. It is peace without honour, unworthy of the name. It might even be worse than that, according to another throwaway remark from Mr Trump that Ukraine "may not survive".
The dispiriting context to these peace talks in Jeddah means that, as Sir Keir has declared, Ukraine must be helped by Europe to enjoy the strongest possible position in these talks and long into the future. Time to step up.
MSN
Most likely, the Russian economy, placed on an unsustainable war footing, would have collapsed within a year, with heavy battlefield losses continuing to undermine popular backing for Vladimir Putin's "special military operation". He would have been forced to sue for peace – and left in a weakened position at home and abroad, vulnerable to a coup.
Instead, he is being richly rewarded for his aggression. It is Europe's worst nightmare. While Mr Zelensky is being asked to accept the dismemberment of his country, Russia will not only rule large tracts of Ukraine but also win the dismantling of Nato, replaced by a bizarre partnership between America and Russia.
It's a disgrace, but it is now a fact of life – and has to be dealt with. Thus, a Carthaginian peace perversely imposed on Ukraine must be avoided. That would turn it from a sovereign nation into an emasculated vashal state of Russia, banned from the European Union and Nato, and deprived of armed forces, adequate security guarantees or control of its own natural resources.
That is not acceptable to Ukraine – or the rest of Europe. It is peace without honour, unworthy of the name. It might even be worse than that, according to another throwaway remark from Mr Trump that Ukraine "may not survive".
The dispiriting context to these peace talks in Jeddah means that, as Sir Keir has declared, Ukraine must be helped by Europe to enjoy the strongest possible position in these talks and long into the future. Time to step up.
WriteThinking
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Donald Trump makes me sick. There aren't words for how much I hate him.
Trump Drops the Mask
Donald Trump's approach to Russia's invasion of Ukraine has always been to root for Russia while pretending he isn't. Trump just hates killing and death. More than that, he hates sending American money overseas. The claim that he actually agrees with Moscow is a hoax, remember. Trump is all about putting America first. Or so he's said, and so his mostly non-Russophilic supporters claim to believe.
But now he has flung the mask to the ground. The president's latest positions on the war reveal that he is indifferent to ongoing slaughter—indeed, he is willing to increase it—and that his opposition to Ukraine's independence has nothing to do with saving American tax dollars. Trump simply wants Russia to win.
https://thehill.com/policy/internat...-says-zelensky-apologized-in-letter-to-trump/https://thehill.com/policy/internat...-says-zelensky-apologized-in-letter-to-trump/
President Trump's special envoy Steve Witkoff said Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky apologized to Trump in a letter after a explosive public argument during an Oval Office meeting.
"Zelensky sent a letter to the president. He apologized for that whole incident that happened in the Oval Office," Witkoff said Monday on Fox News. "I think that it was an important step and there's been a lot of discussion between our teams and the Ukrainians and the Europeans who are relevant to this discussion as well."
Trump Drops the Mask
Donald Trump's approach to Russia's invasion of Ukraine has always been to root for Russia while pretending he isn't. Trump just hates killing and death. More than that, he hates sending American money overseas. The claim that he actually agrees with Moscow is a hoax, remember. Trump is all about putting America first. Or so he's said, and so his mostly non-Russophilic supporters claim to believe.
But now he has flung the mask to the ground. The president's latest positions on the war reveal that he is indifferent to ongoing slaughter—indeed, he is willing to increase it—and that his opposition to Ukraine's independence has nothing to do with saving American tax dollars. Trump simply wants Russia to win.
https://thehill.com/policy/internat...-says-zelensky-apologized-in-letter-to-trump/https://thehill.com/policy/internat...-says-zelensky-apologized-in-letter-to-trump/
President Trump's special envoy Steve Witkoff said Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky apologized to Trump in a letter after a explosive public argument during an Oval Office meeting.
"Zelensky sent a letter to the president. He apologized for that whole incident that happened in the Oval Office," Witkoff said Monday on Fox News. "I think that it was an important step and there's been a lot of discussion between our teams and the Ukrainians and the Europeans who are relevant to this discussion as well."
Twirling Time
Well-Known Member
Zelensky has nothing to apologize for to the USA. He should cut his losses and take whatever Europe can give him because the orange balloon has floated away.
Zelensky was fortunate that Vance cockblocked the mineral drug deal because there was no security guarantee. Stinky was going to use the Russian Army as his security and everyone knew it.
Maybe Zelensky can barter his unsupported weapons to a NATO country for something the Europeans can back up.
Zelensky was fortunate that Vance cockblocked the mineral drug deal because there was no security guarantee. Stinky was going to use the Russian Army as his security and everyone knew it.
Maybe Zelensky can barter his unsupported weapons to a NATO country for something the Europeans can back up.
WriteThinking
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A devastating read from Trump's first-term national security advisor, John Bolton, about the way Trump operates:
The Only Question Trump Asks Himself
Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky is "a dictator without elections," with only a 4 percent approval rating. The war in Ukraine is "madness" and "senseless." Although it is true that Russia is currently "pounding" Ukraine, "probably anyone in that position would be doing that right now." Kyiv is "more difficult, frankly, to deal with" than Moscow.
This Russian propaganda could be easily dismissed, were it not being verbalized by President Donald Trump. I was Trump's national security adviser from 2018 to 2019; I know that his view on Putin has remained constant for years. In saying recently that dealing with Putin is easier than with Zelensky and that Putin would be "more generous than he has to be," Trump has simply reprised the sentiments of his first term. In July 2018, when leaving the White House for a NATO summit (where he almost withdrew America from the alliance), then later appointments with Prime Minister Theresa May in England and Putin in Finland (where he seemed to back Putin over U.S. intelligence), Trump said that his meeting with Putin "may be the easiest of them all. Who would think?" Obviously, only Trump.
But now he has turned U.S. policy on the Russo-Ukraine war 180 degrees. Instead of aiding a victimized country with enormous agricultural, mineral, and industrial resources in the heart of Europe, bordering on key NATO allies, a region whose stability and prosperity have been vital to American national security for eight decades, Trump now sides with the invader. Ukrainians are fighting and dying for their freedom and independence, as near neighbors such as Poland's Lech Walesa fully appreciate. For most Americans, "freedom" and "independence" resonate, but not for Trump....
This is serious, and may be fatal for both Kyiv and NATO. Trump has sought for years to debilitate or destroy the alliance. He doesn't like it; he doesn't understand it; he frowns on its Brussels headquarters building; and, worst of all, it was deeply involved in not only Ukraine but Afghanistan, which he didn't like either. Trump may ultimately want to withdraw from NATO, but in the near term, he can do serious-enough damage simply to render the alliance unworkable. Recent reports that Trump is considering defending only those NATO allies meeting the agreed defense-spending targets mirrors prior suggestions from his aides. This approach is devastating for the alliance....
What explains Trump's approach to Ukraine and disdain for NATO? Trump does not have a philosophy or a national-security grand strategy. He does not do "policy" as Washington understands that term. His approach is personal, transactional, ad hoc, episodic, centering on one question: What benefits Donald Trump? In international affairs, Trump has suggested repeatedly that if he has good personal relations with a foreign head of state, then America ought to have good relations with that country. While personal relations have their place, hard men such as Putin, Xi Jinping, and Kim Jong Un are not distracted by emotions. Trump thinks that Putin is his friend. Putin sees Trump as an easy mark, pliable and manipulable.
The Only Question Trump Asks Himself
Ukraine's Volodymyr Zelensky is "a dictator without elections," with only a 4 percent approval rating. The war in Ukraine is "madness" and "senseless." Although it is true that Russia is currently "pounding" Ukraine, "probably anyone in that position would be doing that right now." Kyiv is "more difficult, frankly, to deal with" than Moscow.
This Russian propaganda could be easily dismissed, were it not being verbalized by President Donald Trump. I was Trump's national security adviser from 2018 to 2019; I know that his view on Putin has remained constant for years. In saying recently that dealing with Putin is easier than with Zelensky and that Putin would be "more generous than he has to be," Trump has simply reprised the sentiments of his first term. In July 2018, when leaving the White House for a NATO summit (where he almost withdrew America from the alliance), then later appointments with Prime Minister Theresa May in England and Putin in Finland (where he seemed to back Putin over U.S. intelligence), Trump said that his meeting with Putin "may be the easiest of them all. Who would think?" Obviously, only Trump.
But now he has turned U.S. policy on the Russo-Ukraine war 180 degrees. Instead of aiding a victimized country with enormous agricultural, mineral, and industrial resources in the heart of Europe, bordering on key NATO allies, a region whose stability and prosperity have been vital to American national security for eight decades, Trump now sides with the invader. Ukrainians are fighting and dying for their freedom and independence, as near neighbors such as Poland's Lech Walesa fully appreciate. For most Americans, "freedom" and "independence" resonate, but not for Trump....
This is serious, and may be fatal for both Kyiv and NATO. Trump has sought for years to debilitate or destroy the alliance. He doesn't like it; he doesn't understand it; he frowns on its Brussels headquarters building; and, worst of all, it was deeply involved in not only Ukraine but Afghanistan, which he didn't like either. Trump may ultimately want to withdraw from NATO, but in the near term, he can do serious-enough damage simply to render the alliance unworkable. Recent reports that Trump is considering defending only those NATO allies meeting the agreed defense-spending targets mirrors prior suggestions from his aides. This approach is devastating for the alliance....
What explains Trump's approach to Ukraine and disdain for NATO? Trump does not have a philosophy or a national-security grand strategy. He does not do "policy" as Washington understands that term. His approach is personal, transactional, ad hoc, episodic, centering on one question: What benefits Donald Trump? In international affairs, Trump has suggested repeatedly that if he has good personal relations with a foreign head of state, then America ought to have good relations with that country. While personal relations have their place, hard men such as Putin, Xi Jinping, and Kim Jong Un are not distracted by emotions. Trump thinks that Putin is his friend. Putin sees Trump as an easy mark, pliable and manipulable.
Starman
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Neutral Corner
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