Running 2023-24 NCAA Basketball Thread

[poindexter]

At their current school . . .

Greg Kampe (Oakland), 41 years
Tom Izzo, 30 years
Mark Few, 26 years
James Jones (Yale), 26 years
Randy Bennett (St. Mary's), 26 years
Leonard Hamilton, 22 years
Scott Drew, 21 years
Bill Self, 21 years
Scott Davenport (Ballarmine), 19 years
Matt Painter, 19 years

The "contract" may be the same, but the actions aren't. Coaches don't coach five teams in six years. Currently 56 coaches have been at their schools for 10+ years. Many of those who aren't got dismissed instead of leaving for bigger "bags."

Good list. There are 350 D1 schools.

Just since he is one of the big names on there, let's take a look at 21 year tenured Bill Self. From wiki:
Oral Roberts[edit]
Self's first head coaching position came at Oral Roberts who hired him in 1993. In his first season at ORU, the team managed only six wins. Things improved slightly the following year, when ORU won ten games. In Self's third season, he guided the Golden Eagles to an 18–9 record, and in his fourth season, (1996–1997), ORU registered a 21–7 record as the school made its first postseason tournament appearance since its 1983–1984 appearance in the National Invitation Tournament.[16]
LEFT MID-CONTRACT FOR A BIGGER BAG

Tulsa[edit]
After rebuilding the Golden Eagles, Self was hired by crosstown rival Tulsa and spent three seasons (1998 to 2000) there, compiling a Tulsa-best 74–27 record. While at TU, Self coached the Golden Hurricane to consecutive NCAA tournament appearances in 1999 and 2000. In the 1999–2000 season, in addition to setting a school single-season record for victories by compiling a 32–5 record, Self led the Golden Hurricane to its first-ever Elite Eight appearance.[17]
LEFT MID-CONTRACT FOR A BIGGER BAG

Illinois[edit]
On June 9, 2000, Illinois named Self the head coach of their basketball program. Self's predecessor, Lon Kruger, had recently left the Illinois program to accept a job in the NBA as head coach of the Atlanta Hawks.

In 2000–01, his first season at Illinois, Self coached a squad of mostly Kruger recruits to a 27–8 record (13–3 conference record), a share of the Big Ten title, and a final ashociated Press ranking of 4th in the nation, resulting in the Fighting Illini earning a number 1 seed in the NCAA tournament. Self coached Illinois guards Frank Williams and Cory Bradford, along with guard/forward Sergio McClain, forward Brian Cook, and center Marcus Griffin, to the Elite Eight in the NCAA Tournament. The Illini failed to advance beyond the Elite Eight after falling to eventual tournament finalists number 2 seeded Arizona. The 2000–01 Illini roster included future NBA players Frank Williams, Robert Archibald and Brian Cook. With mostly the same core, Illinois followed up the season with impressive 2001–02 and 2002–03 campaigns, but fell in the NCAA Tournament Sweet Sixteen in 2002 to Kansas, and the second round in 2003 to Notre Dame.

Self was responsible for the recruitment of many of the 2005 Fighting Illini team, which won the Big Ten title under Bruce Weber.[18] Weber replaced Self prior to the 2003–04 season and coached 2005 Fighting Illini to an NCAA record-tying 37–2 record before falling to North Carolina in the NCAA championship game. In Self's three seasons in Illinois, he led the Fighting Illini to two Big Ten regular-season championships, a Big Ten tournament title, and three straight NCAA tournament appearances.
LEFT MID-CONTRACT FOR A BIGGER BAG

Kansas[edit]
2003–07[edit]
Kansas hired Self in 2003. He took over for Roy Williams who left for his former team, North Carolina, after KU lost the 2003 National Championship game to Syracuse.

 

[Cosmo]

Just want to make it clear ... I don't have any issues with players taking the bag. They've been on the wrong side of it in college athletics for too long. But it's very difficult to get attached to anything but the laundry of the program when guys are moving around every year. It's hard to get invested in the program or the players when the roster nearly fully turns over every offseason.

 

[poindexter]

Just want to make it clear ... I don't have any issues with players taking the bag. They've been on the wrong side of it in college athletics for too long. But it's very difficult to get attached to anything but the laundry of the program when guys are moving around every year. It's hard to get invested in the program or the players when the roster nearly fully turns over every offseason.

I'm not picking a fight with you. I get your point. But this clearly seems to be in general, a good move for the players.

And btw, Deion came in last year and bulldozed the Colorado roster. The cut players seemed to take it like men.
What happened to Deion Sanders' Colorado castoffs? Revisiting a record-setting exodus

 

[dixiehack]

How many people would be emotionally invested in the NBA with no salary cap and free agency for all every season?

 

[franticscribe]

How many people would be emotionally invested in the NBA with no salary cap and free agency for all every season?

If universities would ever acknowledge that the athletes are employees and share the revenue they make off the athletes through direct wages, they could solve the unrestricted free agency with contracts that last more than one season. We're in a weird spot as the schools continue to have their heads in the sand but no longer have a de facto anti-trust exemption to regulate anything.

 

[qtlaw]

Just want to make it clear ... I don't have any issues with players taking the bag. They've been on the wrong side of it in college athletics for too long. But it's very difficult to get attached to anything but the laundry of the program when guys are moving around every year. It's hard to get invested in the program or the players when the roster nearly fully turns over every offseason.

Definitely not criticizing you but your statement about rooting just for the "the laundry" is the very same criticism I heard in the aftermath of the dawn of baseball free agency and then the NBA-ABA signing wars.

I'm sure you're not blaming the players (which fans did to the pros).

For over 40 years the primary reason I've not been attached to college sports is that I couldn't stand seeing the Bobby Knights/Coach Ks/Dean Smiths get huge shoe deals (and the schools raking it in) while the players got a $10k-40k tuition and room and board package. I enjoyed Manziel's "money fingers snap" because he was calling it exactly as it was. A&M got millions on his jersey sales, increased tickets, etc. and he got....zip.

 

[Cosmo]

If universities would ever acknowledge that the athletes are employees and share the revenue they make off the athletes through direct wages, they could solve the unrestricted free agency with contracts that last more than one season. We're in a weird spot as the schools continue to have their heads in the sand but no longer have a de facto anti-trust exemption to regulate anything.

This, plus Dixie's earlier post, captures my view on this.

Coaches are in a very strange spot, too. You still have to recruit, but how do you know what you're recruiting? Before, you knew that you needed a point guard as Joe Blow's eligibility was starting to run dry. Now, it seems like you're recruiting your own roster for the entire season, and through honest competition, if your pretty good backup point isn't good enough to supplant the starter, he's probably gone for another opportunity the second the season is over. Which is that player's right, of course. It's just all so disjointed. In theory, high major players looking for playing time transferring to a low major school made a lot of sense, but the big boys are hell bent to make it exceedingly difficult for those schools to even crack the tournament that maybe it doesn't make sense any more. I'm not necessarily yearning for the "good old days," but the current framework is a complete and total mess.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

At their current school . . .

Greg Kampe (Oakland), 41 years
Tom Izzo, 30 years
Mark Few, 26 years
James Jones (Yale), 26 years
Randy Bennett (St. Mary's), 26 years
Leonard Hamilton, 22 years
Scott Drew, 21 years
Bill Self, 21 years
Scott Davenport (Ballarmine), 19 years
Matt Painter, 19 years

The "contract" may be the same, but the actions aren't. Coaches don't coach five teams in six years. Currently 56 coaches have been at their schools for 10+ years. Many of those who aren't got dismissed instead of leaving for bigger "bags."

Many coaches who stay at their school also get bigger and better contracts by threatening to leave the school for greener pastures even though they currently are under contract.

Not saying it's morally wrong. They're just treating it as a business just like everyone else. And that includes the players.

 

[Starman]

Probably difficult to avoid scrutiny when you're 7-foot-5.

"Come on, Reggie, I know that's you."

"Naw, it ain't me. Hand over the money."

 

[qtlaw]

Any defense of college coaches rings hollow to me. Those coaches have been living off the backs of the players forever. Sure they recruit and do hard work, not denying that. But its basic economics (and math), they (and the schools) are reaping the excess generated by the athletes.

The only reason it has not been called out for the longest time was the false narrative of the "scholar-athlete" and the romanticizing of your dear old alma mater. Admittedly, I never bought into it because I did not attend a D1 power school and do not long for my alma mater to win (it has gone from DII to D1 and hasn't made a difference in the prestige).

 

[Neutral Corner]

Definitely not criticizing you but your statement about rooting just for the "the laundry" is the very same criticism I heard in the aftermath of the dawn of baseball free agency and then the NBA-ABA signing wars.

I'm sure you're not blaming the players (which fans did to the pros).

For over 40 years the primary reason I've not been attached to college sports is that I couldn't stand seeing the Bobby Knights/Coach Ks/Dean Smiths get huge shoe deals (and the schools raking it in) while the players got a $10k-40k tuition and room and board package. I enjoyed Manziel's "money fingers snap" because he was calling it exactly as it was. A&M got millions on his jersey sales, increased tickets, etc. and he got....zip.

One of the primary reactions I saw in fan forums after the announcement that the UAB football team had joined the Player ashociation boiled down to "Fine. Screw'em then. Pull their scholarships and let them pay tuition."

Irrational as hell, but people are fed up with all the transfer and NIL changes and they're indignant. Note that this is not another team's fans, angry at the move. These are fans talking about their own team.

 

[qtlaw]

One of the primary reactions I saw in fan forums after the announcement that the UAB football team had joined the Player ashociation boiled down to "Fine. Screw'em then. Pull their scholarships and let them pay tuition."

Irrational as hell, but people are fed up with all the transfer and NIL changes and they're indignant. Note that this is not another team's fans, angry at the move. These are fans talking about their own team.

"I want you to play when I want, how I want, and where I want and take it or leave it." The American Way, perfect. We suck as humans.