Jones/ESPNMAG

[Elliotte Friedman]

This thread is going off the rails, but, Sam, I disagree with you to some extent. Not every criticism of Jones is idiotic. Chris L's dislike of the piece is a matter of taste.

Boom is here to roil up you guys, and so many fall into his trap. He must be gleefully rubbing his hands reading this stuff.

But, some of the people here complaining about anonymous rip jobs are just as guilty.

Jones can handle himself perfectly well. He's probably laughing as hard as boom is.

 

[shotglass]

I get the feeling that pretty soon now, I'm going to be made to feel like I'm a dope for defending a good guy and an even better writer.

Well, joke's on me, mashes.

P.S. Frankly, the first one slid right by me, because I know what we're dealing with there. It was the second attack that smacked of bile.

 

[Sam Mills 51]

This thread is going off the rails, but, Sam, I disagree with you to some extent. Not every criticism of Jones is idiotic. Chris L's dislike of the piece is a matter of taste.

Boom is here to roil up you guys, and so many fall into his trap. He must be gleefully rubbing his hands reading this stuff.

But, some of the people here complaining about anonymous rip jobs are just as guilty.

Jones can handle himself perfectly well. He's probably laughing as hard as boom is.

EF, I've had the good fortune to meet Jones and understand he has a pretty sly sense of humor. None of what is said here is causing him to boil. Wouldn't be at all surprised if he's laughing harder than anyone.

No one is above criticism ... I was telling a good friend that barely 12 hours ago, mentioning that even Chris Jones takes shots and mentioning this particular thread. Some criticism is obviously constructive, and how much so is pretty clearly a case-by-case, person-by-person basis.

Some people are throwing stones from their glash houses, though. No denying that ... I use a handle, and to think I'm any big deal should cause uproarious and non-stop laughter lasting for months, years and perhaps decades.

And while your take on Boom is probably correct, EF, at some point, he's just stinking up the joint with his whatever-the-@#$#-it-is, regardless of his intention. Some of the people getting Pished off laugh at a lot more and possess a much better sense of humor than I ever will.

 

[spnited]

Shotty,

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that if he doesn't care about boom, why would anyone else? No one should be quitting the website over this.

Ding, ding ding!

Why does anyone care what boob says? His only reason for posting is to flame and inflame.

I trust jg is far more intelligent that boob could ever think of being and will not leave the board because of forking boob acting like the moron he is.

It amazes me that a jerk like boob, who is not in this business and can barely put two coherent sentences together, gets so many intelligent journalists riled up with his forking bullship.

 

[Boom_70]

Shotty,

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that if he doesn't care about boom, why would anyone else? No one should be quitting the website over this.

Ding, ding ding!

Why does anyone care what boob says? His only reason for posting is to flame and inflame.

I trust jg is far more intelligent that boob could ever think of being and will not leave the board because of forking boob acting like the moron he is.

It amazes me that a jerk like boob, who is not in this business and can barely put two coherent sentences together, gets so many intelligent journalists riled up with his forking bullship.

Spitted we all are better off when you and snottie stay over in the private club wing of the club jerking each other off while discussing the merits of straight AP copy.


Once again you prove you are devoid of original thought by just commenting on posts of others instead of starting your own threads.

Jmac - don't be a baby . You are a valuable contributor to the board.

Jones - again to be clear - loved the story - just seemed like an odd placement for you given the fact that ESPN is viewed as the antichrist by many of the media elite.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

OK - I'm sorry but this is like a car wreck. I just can't look away.

Part 3 is about about Lance Armstrong and David Tyree and the key moment is something that happened at the White House with Bill Clinton and Armstrong in 1999 involving a magnolia tree? Was this written as a Mad-Lib?

Name two athletes, a place and a year and bingo you have part three. I'm guessing that it easily could have been about David Ortiz, Ricky Williams, Benjamin Franklin and the discovery of electricity and it would have made as much sense. Really - someone explain to me what Armstrong and Tyree have to do with each other besides being some bizarre Mad-Lib mashup.

Is this because Jones was told to keep it to 11 "things"? He had to mix in Armstrong and Tyree because he couldn't go to 12? Is that it? Really - I'm asking. Nothing seems to make sense here. Oh and what's with the "things" deal anyway? The Things We Lost in the Fire; The Things They Carried With Them and now The Things We Forgot? Is it some sort of homage or another cheap mail-it-in gimmick? Has anyone forgotten Lance Armstrong, Yankee Stadium or Michael Phelps? I don't think so. Maybe those same people have forgotten Peyton Manning, Lebron James and Alex Rodriguez. Hockeybeat is right - ESPN the Magazine has always been geared toward the ADHD crowd but this is ridiculous.

Oh and keep your political bias to yourself while you are at it. Bill Clinton has done "fork all" for Africa compared to George Bush (just ask Bob Geldorf or Bono).

Abstinance.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

 

[In Exile]

This site is at its worst when it discusses "names," which always tends to bring out jealousies latent and patent and ax grindings and insults, and is why, I think, with few exceptions, so few of us use our "names" here.

 

[Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L)]

I came on this thread because of the high praise that was being heaped upon Jones' piece. I thought "hey I should check it out" but the piece was for the most part crap. I criticized the piece because it deserves criticism. Seriously - the issues I raised nobody has addressed. Please - just one person explain to me what the hell Lance Armstrong and David Tyree have to do with one another. Someone explain to me a piece called The Things We Forgot includes among others Lance Armstrong, Yankee Stadium and Michael Phelps. Who has forgotten them?

I understand that in some of your eyes Chris Jones is not just a literary God but someone on this board who you hope notices you to give you a patronizing pat on the head but come on. That piece was a mailed in piece of year in review on acid crap. Jesus - Chris Jones could literally ship on some of you and you would praise him for his performance art.

Sheep.

 

[jgmacg]

And there you have it.

Just so we're clear.

I encourage thoughtful, honest criticism respectfully given. That's the whole point of the Workshop after all.

And Chris Jones and I are both used to being judged very publicly - and sometimes very harshly - for our work.

But what we've had on this thread for the last several pages is merely insult and more of the usual obtuse, gutless performance art.

I'm exhausted by it. It's cancerous. I can respond in kind or not respond at all.

I choose the latter.

 

[Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L)]

You choose to respond by not responding but do so with a post? See - maybe its me. Maybe with that type of logic grouping Lance Armstrong and David Tyree makes sense.

For the "last several pages"? OK now maybe I also get the fact that Jones' hyperbole would resonate with a person like yourself who calls a handful of posts "several pages".

I had honest criticism of the piece and I should be the target audience. Someone please answer some of the questions I raised about the piece. I won't hold my breath though because some of you would rather slam me for pointing out that the Emperor has no clothes.

 

[jgmacg]

For the "last several pages"? OK now maybe I also get the fact that Jones' hyperbole would resonate with a person like yourself who calls a handful of posts "several pages".

I was referring to Boom.

We're done.

 

[Boom_70]

And there you have it.

Just so we're clear.

I encourage thoughtful, honest criticism respectfully given. That's the whole point of the Workshop after all.

And Chris Jones and I are both used to being judged very publicly - and sometimes very harshly - for our work.

But what we've had on this thread for the last several pages is merely insult and more of the usual obtuse, gutless performance art.

I'm exhausted by it. It's cancerous. I can respond in kind or not respond at all.

I choose the latter.

The thing is Chris L and I are your audience - who has actually taken the time to read your work. You should be thankful that we have the interest. 99% of the world has neither heard of you or Chris Jones. We've read enough of your work to know the difference between what is good and what is bad.

In many ways you and Jones write in the same hip irreverent style that at times can be grating to the reader and others can be insightful. Some of your riffs are laugh out loud funny while others make you want to burn the story.

What I am not seeing is why you are being so defensive of work that is not even yours. Why not let Jones speak for himself.

Again just so we're clear. I liked the article and in no way have I been critical of it. If it appeared in Esquire we would all be on the same page in singing its praises.

Jmac your reaction is over the top. I've raised a legitimate question on a sports journalism site. If you want to get made at someone get mad at those who start all the inane threads that have nothing to do with sports journalism.