Whatever you do, don't make mistakes at Notre Dame

[outofplace]

Honestly, I don't know what their policy is towards kids who are arrested for underage drinking, but I will say this as far as football Saturdays go: It's a lot more difficult to go around the parking lots carding every person you see and arresting those who are drinking underage than it is to kick a kid who was arrested with marijuana out of school.

Just logistically speaking, controlling underage drinking at football games is much more difficult than disciplining someone who is arrest for marijuana possession.

What they do with kids who are arrested for underage drinking, I have no idea, and I suspect, JR, that you aren't sure either.

(And I think the arrest part of this is an important distinction to make.)

Of course they could control drinking at games but they choose not to. because beer and football--as someone else pointed out--is a big part of the frat-boy culture which apprently is still alive and well in 1950's Notre Dame.

The whole thing is just a reflection of the absolutely asinine attitudes that still exist around a recreational drug like marijuana..

And how many brain cells have you sacrificed to recreation?

Point?

Part of the point is to be a smart ass.

Another part is to point out that not everybody agrees that marijuana is harmless. It is not harmless and it is illegal. When they legalize it, then you have a lot more reason to slam colleges for having draconian rules against it.

Yes, there are worse substances that can be put in a human body, and that may include alcohol and nicotine, but the law is what it is and the school same goes for the school policy.

 

[JR]

JR, I mean, come on.

I completely agree that marijuana laws should be relaxed. Always thought so. But they have NOT been.

If Notre Dame had a stance OTHER than this, it would be pilloried.

The kid did the crime, and he is doing the time. It's an absolute no-brainer.

Smoking a joint is illegal.

Drinking under age is illegal.

So, if you get arrested for smoking a joint why aren't cops swooping down on ND football games and arresting the kids for drinking? And then all those kids should be tossed from university. forking hypocrites.

It makes ND look like Poduknville. Oh, wait, it's in South Bend, Indiana. It IS Podunkville.

 

[Cadet]

I'm mostly with JR on this one.

I'm not against the school's policy with regard to marijuana. It's illegal (right or wrong) and the consequences follow suit.

Where the school comes across as hypocritical is with the underage drinking. Just as illegal for 18-19-20-yr-olds as smoking a joint. But drinking is such a cultural norm at ND, such a part of the lifestyle and, yes part of the "beer and circus," that the school at best turns a blind eye.

All I know is anecdotal evidence, but I'd love to know how many kids have been transported to the local hospital for alcohol poisoning in the last year.

 

[Pringle]

How great is it, by the way, to be able to have a lively debate without you-know-who showing up to tell everybody what a bunch of bird brains we all are?

 

[JR]

I'm mostly with JR on this one.

I'm not against the school's policy with regard to marijuana. It's illegal (right or wrong) and the consequences follow suit.

Where the school comes across as hypocritical is with the underage drinking. Just as illegal for 18-19-20-yr-olds as smoking a joint. But drinking is such a cultural norm at ND, such a part of the lifestyle and, yes part of the "beer and circus," that the school at best turns a blind eye.

All I know is anecdotal evidence, but I'd love to know how many kids have been transported to the local hospital for alcohol poisoning in the last year.

Thank you.

Yes, the university is within its right to expel the kid but the policy is not very enlightened and smells like ND doesnt' want to be perceived as being "soft on drugs" in case it jeopardizes funding or alumnae support.

I'd expect more of a distinguished university.

 

[Johnny Rockets]

JR, I mean, come on.

I completely agree that marijuana laws should be relaxed. Always thought so. But they have NOT been.

If Notre Dame had a stance OTHER than this, it would be pilloried.

The kid did the crime, and he is doing the time. It's an absolute no-brainer.

Oh, is it? And you don't think his suspension for the spring semester would have sufficiently gotten that message across? Tell me, how many other major conference college programs would have come down this harshly on a kid for his first offense? This stuff happens all of the time. Guys are benched for a couple of games, suspended, and then they are back. And frankly, that is how it should be. It's a joint, for Christsakes. The kid screwed up. But the way the university handled this for a first offense was incredibly vindictive.

I love this implicit message being sent by Notre Dame that the university is "above it all" and holds itself to a higher standard when it comes to college athletics, while, as Football Bat says, they reap millions off the NBC football contract. It is such an amazing crock of bullshirt.

BTW, the Sean Williams comparison isn't valid. Because if the kid were at BC, he'd have to be caught eight more times before the university would take some kind of punitive action. With Williams, it was MULTIPLE documented offenses.

 

[Pringle]

Mama MacAlarney checks in:

"I'm ashamed of how they did this. ... I'm ashamed of the university. My son is a great kid. He did not deserve this. The punishment did not fit the crime."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2740098

 

[JR]

 

[bigpern23]

JR, I mean, come on.

I completely agree that marijuana laws should be relaxed. Always thought so. But they have NOT been.

If Notre Dame had a stance OTHER than this, it would be pilloried.

The kid did the crime, and he is doing the time. It's an absolute no-brainer.

Smoking a joint is illegal.

Drinking under age is illegal.

So, if you get arrested for smoking a joint why aren't cops swooping down on ND football games and arresting the kids for drinking? And then all those kids should be tossed from university. forking hypocrites.

It makes ND look like Poduknville. Oh, wait, it's in South Bend, Indiana. It IS Podunkville.

My point about the arrest being a big part of it is this: The cops aren't swooping and arresting underage drinkers, but the university isn't in control of what the cops turn a blind eye to.

If the cops swooped in and arrested the kids for underage drinking, would they be booted from school? I have no idea, since I've never read a story about it, nor do I have the student handbook. But again, nobody here knows if random students are expelled for underage drinking (if there is anyone who knows, please feel free to share with the class.)

I just don't see how you can accuse the university of being hypcritical for enforcing a policy it has on its books. If they didn't enforce it, it would be hypocritical. The kid knew the rule broke it and has to pay the price.

Argue the policy all you want (in fact, I'd likely agree with you). But you can't argue the punishment when it's explicitly stated in the handbook how the university views marijuana violations.

 

[outofplace]

Can you people please stop making me defend Notre Dame? I hate Notre Dame.

But it is not vindictiveness to enforce a policy as it is stated in the rules. You all act like this was a surprise to the kid. I guarantee he was told this was the policy.

And wow, his father thinks the kid has been wronged. I'm a father myself. Parents back their kids, sometimes to the point that they lack disipline (yes, that is an argument from another thread spilling over).

The kid got ARRESTED in violation of a school policy. This is not an outrage. And believe me, I'd love any opportunity to rip anything Notre Dame does.

 

[shotglass]

This stuff happens all of the time.

Suggestion: If you join the debate team next semester, cross this off your list of potential arguments.

 

[JR]

This is my last post on this subject:

1) I'd bet my first born that if you were arrested for underage drinking at ND, you wouldn't be expelled.

2) ND, given that they are a bit of an institution, could force the local Barney Fifes to arrest kids at football games for underage drinking, but then that would fly in the face of what appears to be a pretty strong frat-boy culture.

3) Without seeing the actual wording of the policy, I doubt immediate expulsion for getting arrested with a joint would have been mandatory. In other words, the university could have used their discretion and suspended the student for however long they thought was appropriate. If immediate expulsion is in fact mandatory, then ND is a clueless organization.

4) The policy is unbelievably heavy-handed and I agree with the parent's take on it.